Just Like Jessica Lynch: Army Spun Web of Lies Around Death of Pat Tillman

Destructo6, (Rebuttal) Please Read my Posts THOROUGLY

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Finally, there are also many times when some of the details of gruesome deaths of DoD personnel, and/or other American victims are released, e.g., the mutilation of the charred bodies of the Blackwater Security detail, and the beheading of Nick Berg.

Neither case were DOD personnel. And in neither case was the media outlet US. Bad examples.
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Rebuttal: The following clause, "and/or other American victims", is contained in my previous post; which you excerpted above, thereby nullifying your non-DoD personnel objection (which is a rather trifling "perceived error"; if I had in fact made one, when compared to the overall message). Second, the mutilation of the bodies of the Blackwater Security detail, was widely published in the American media. Third, the preceding linked article (included for the 2nd time) is from an American publisher, i.e., The Washington Post. Consequently, your objections are without merit, and are therefore, erroneous.
And you are making what decisions based on the details of Tillman's death? None, the details are unimportant.
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The decisions that I make are based on the information that is available to me at the time, and are couched in prayer, asking God for guidance. As to what those decisions are, that is really none of your business; unless I choose to reveal them to you, or anyone else. And finally, by answering the question that you yourself posed to me; involving Pat Tillman's tragic death, with the word, "None", makes your whole statemunt (sic) appear to be rather silly. Finally, just because details are unimportant to you, obviously does NOT mean that they are unimportant to other people.
 
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Read as thoroughly as necessary, thank you.
is from an American publisher, i.e., The Washington Post. Consequently, your objections are without merit, and are therefore, erroneous.
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I well aware of who broke the stories and who parroted them. The origin of the respective stories are paramount if any is to accept those as an example of "the military lied." Point well established.
The decisions that I make are based on the information that is available to me at the time, and are couched in prayer, asking God for guidance. As to what those decisions are, that is really none of your business; unless I choose to reveal them to you, or anyone else.
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Like I said: no decisions pivoted on that information. Don't bring up the topic if you don't want it discussed.
 
Jessica Lynch, Pat Tillman, Nick Berg

Lynch: A sad rape victim who should never have been placed anywhere near the war zone. There is nothing heroic about being defeated and savaged. I always thought heroism came from kicking the other people's a$$es.

Tillman: A hero who met his end. No man is invincible, and to "over-dramatize" his last moments is to deny the sad realities of war. I agree, though, that the lazy, passive masses that seem to ceaselessly propagate themselves in this country probably can't handle the truth in its entirety about most things.

Berg: An idiot who met his end. It's like "the Duke" said, "Life is hard when you're stupid."

My condolences go out to the Tillman and Berg families.

Vanguard.45
 
Jessica Lynch

Also..."her M16 jammed" and she never fired a shot! HOW? how does an M16 "Jam" without firing a shot? wasn't the weapon in condition 1?
was the firing pin missing? i really would love for someone to explain this ludicrous lie to me so it makes enough sense for thousands of people to believe it. idiots. she took her life into her own hands and obviously lacked the responsibility to care for it, or her weapon for that matter. she gave up, before the fight even happened. disgraceful. and shame on the US Army for for putting stupid little girls on a man's battlefield. when will we learn?
 
Oops.

its been brought to my attention that i may be too free in my speech, so to speak. i apologize for insulting my sister service. i know you guys got a job too. and you are better men than most.
That being said...no service, be it the army or the Marine Corps should be putting young American females in that kind of situation. its just not right.
Still no explaination on how M16s can jam without firing a shot. Is it wrong to say someone is lying, if they ARE in fact lying?
 
Still no explaination on how M16s can jam without firing a shot. Is it wrong to say someone is lying, if they ARE in fact lying?
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The simple explanation, in her on words-- "I fell to my knees and prayed". That wasn't in my M-16 training manual
 
That being said...no service, be it the army or the Marine Corps should be putting young American females in that kind of situation. its just not right.
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My daughters would disagree with your opinion, but are gladly defending your right to have and express it.
 
Patriot Daughters

Striker,
I don't mean to insult your daughters or any other woman who serves her country with honor. The are, indeed, true patriots. Their hearts are true.
Let no one question that. That being said, I have been in combat on an almost daily basis here, and I have to say that its bad enough here without having women around. There are NO females where I'm at, and I can tell you, while it makes for less "eye candy," it allows Marines to concentrate on the task at hand...killing the enemy. Women are a distraction to men in combat, and they are a distraction to the public at large. People will miss the point when a woman is involved in any story or incident of warfare in which there is a woman involved. Jessica Lynch is a perfect example. America saw a darling little girl who was a hero caught in a "bad situation," and celebrated her. What if Marine Sergeant Jones had done the same thing? I would hope they would court martial him for dereliction of duty, and cowardess. The American people would not be paying $225.00 a pop to see his motivational talk, that's for sure.
Meanwhile...I know of great men...true warriors on the battlefield, who were shot or injured by EIDs or RPGs who, in the face of danger, leaned into the buttstock of THEIR M16, and let lead fly. Some of these men will have a difficult time just getting a job. This alone speaks volumes about the ignorance of the American people on such matters.
Young American women who love their country should serve in the military if they want. Just not in combat.
 
Well, I guess I have to get in on this. First off, let me say I have immediate
family, both males and females in the armed forces, some of them in combat zones right now. I believe that while females are free to serve in the armed forces in any capacity, they should be restricted from combat. There are several reasons for this. Its not because females are not physically or emotionally capable, though I believe the larger number ARE NOT. Its just a fact. While there are alot of physically and emotionally superior women out there, this only applies to a very, very small percentage. And I have seen men break down and cry, lose nerve, ect. but the major percentage of men are better suited to combat than women. The major reasons however are that women become a liability in a combat situation. They ARE a distraction for the men, wether or not they believe it. And I have SEEN men, both in combat and non combat situations, take unnecessary risks to 'protect' a woman. Men WILL and DO take extra risks, or make stupid judgement calls to 'protect' a woman in a dangerous situation. I have no bias towards women, and have served with many brave and valiant ones, but they DO NOT BELONG IN COMBAT. It is not a sexist statement. It SHOULD be a COMMON SENSE one...... :mad:
 
what he said...

i agree with Big D.
i dont at all think women are incapable. actually a war of women alone would probably leave us male warriors in awe. the are FULLY capable.
their effect on men around them is the truer issue. good job D. keep up the good work. and when you're done...clean the head.
 
Lies and more lies

There is no excuse for lieing, the government is no more exempt from this rule than anyone else.
If the government, any part of it , lies, no one, can ever accept anything the government ever after says
These lies are solely for the purpose of covering the a-- of a bunch of corrupt pols , bureaucrats and career soldiers[ aka freeloaders playing with guns at the taxpayers expense].
The founding fathers were united in the principal that nothing was worse than a standing army, that was the reason for the second ammendment.
If you dispute this last statement, provide quotes from the founding fathers which espouse the establishment of a standing army.
Don
 
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It was all based on lies, so why shouldn't it be perpetuated with lies.
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... wow.

... talk about ignorance.


The war in Afghanistan was 100% justified. Bin Laden attacked the United States and the Taliban was harboring him. End of story.


And i see some of you brought up Iraq. Which was also justified completely due to Saddam Husseisn countless violations of the 1991 Cease Fire Agreement, refusal to abide by 17 UN Resolutions, support for terrorist groups, and his refusal to provide proof that he destroyed his WMD stockpiles he personally declared in 1991 as part of the cease fire agreement.

Support for terrorism: http://www.husseinandterror.com/

Justifications for the Iraq war: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joint_...se_of_United_States_Armed_Forces_Against_Iraq


I know i'm new to the site but i've been lurking for a while now. The misinformation spread by a few members is quite appauling.
 
Back to the thread....

Andrew LB,
So what do you have to say about the assertion that the whole Jessica Lynch story was a fabrication?
Do you support any level of propaganda if it supports the government line?
 
The Jessica Lynch story has pissed me off since day 1. It was full of holes from the very begining and was a pathetic attempt to make a really big screw-up turn into a moral boosting "hero story".

I wish the media would have gotton its head out and exposed it for the fraud it was. Amazingly enough.... i did see a couple segments on Fox News Channel which actually talked about the story being a fraud. Other than that, i never saw a thing in the mainstream media.

Either stories like this need to not be reported at all... or reported accurately.
 
I'm glad we can find some agreement!

I think the essence of this whole story is:
Success has 1000 fathers.
Failure is an orphan.
This story is one BIG orphan.....
 
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