John McCain is 100% pro-2nd Amendment!!!
- Thread starter gregt
- Start date
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Desertscout
New member
McCain says he's a friend of gun owners, but he is trying his darndest to shut down gun shows by pressuring Republicans to compromise
with left-wing Democrats on a bill that would impose a three-day background check on sales. He also wants to prevent groups such as Gun Owners of New Hampshire from talking about which candidates are hostile to Second
Amendment rights by restricting the kind of advertising they can buy.
He's also a liar, a coward, a traitor and a prick.
All of these things aside, he's a really nice guy, for an anal orifice.
with left-wing Democrats on a bill that would impose a three-day background check on sales. He also wants to prevent groups such as Gun Owners of New Hampshire from talking about which candidates are hostile to Second
Amendment rights by restricting the kind of advertising they can buy.
He's also a liar, a coward, a traitor and a prick.
All of these things aside, he's a really nice guy, for an anal orifice.
Desertscout
New member
How 'bout this for starters?
Here's a site you can check out: http://geckocountry.com/mccain.htm
Comments
"GOP Presidential hopeful Senator John McCain remains an enigma to many.
He has been heralded as a 'war hero' and a 'collaborator'. He wears a
conservative republican coat, but acts like a 'moderate democrat'. Why do
some people we would expect to supporting Senator McCain, hold him in such
unbridled
contempt?
The following article may provide you with some additional insight into
what Paul Harvey would call '....the REST of the story'.
ARIZONA'S JOHN McCAIN: A Fraud, "Rhinestone Hero," and National Security
Risk
Special Two-Part Series Article By Ted Sampley THE U.S. VETERAN
DISPATCH, JULY
1995, SPECIAL EDITION
John McCain the second-term Republican senator from Arizona and former
Navy pilot captured and held prisoner during the Vietnam War, is a fraud,
collaborator, and danger to the security of the United States because he
is being black-mailed by the COMMUNIST Vietnamese. He is a phony--a
"rhinestone hero."
While a prisoner of war, McCain was treated as a "special prisoner,"
with privileges including being given his own private and affectionate
nurse.
McCain's treatment as a "special prisoner" is a contradiction to his
much publicized image of a great war hero who was severely tortured and kept
in solitary confinement for long period's of time because he refused to
break during interrogation.
Ted Guy, a former Air Force Colonel held 5 1/2 years by the Vietnamese
and McCain's senior ranking officer (SRO) in the POW camp, told the U.S.
Veteran Dispatch he cannot remember the
communists ever laying a hand on McCain.
Other sources have told the U.S. Veteran Dispatch that the Vietnamese
are holding as much as fifty hours of film footage secretly taken of McCain
during the time his KGB-trained handlers had him isolated from other U.S.
prisoners of war.
Some of the film, according to the sources, is of McCain receiving
special privileges during the time he claims he was being tortured and held
in
long-term solitary confinement.
The sources say interrogators have candid camera footage of McCain with
the nurse, who allegedly supplied him with more than just medical attention
during those lonely days and nights in so-called solitary confinement.
In June 1992, Trung Hieu, a film director from the Vietnamese Ministry
of Culture and former North Vietnamese Army photographer, told the U.S.
Veteran Dispatch that Hanoi does have considerable film of POW McCain and
some
of it involves a Vietnamese woman.
Trung, who worked during the war as an official photographer in North
Vietnam's POW camps, was in the United States seeking political asylum when
he
told the U.S. Veterans Dispatch about the film.
Trung also said that during the war he photographed a nearly intact B-52
bomber, which was shot down at the edge of an air field near Hanoi in
December 1972. He said the North Vietnamese traded the B-52 and some of its
surviving crew members to the Soviets for three
MIG-23 jet interceptors. Trung said the Soviets wanted to interrogate
the crew about U.S. electronic warfare.
Trung said he took movie film of an American F-111 fighter bomber also
shot down in 1972.
He said the F-111 capsule, along with the surviving crew, was sent to
China. The crew, according to Trung, was later returned to Hanoi.
McCain, who was a member of the 1992 Senate Select Committee on POW/MIA
Affairs, argued emotionally during the hearings that "none of the
returned U.S. prisoners of war released by Vietnam were ever interrogated by
the
Soviets."
Trung has said Hanoi has a large, secret vault containing shelves loaded
with POW/MIA related film, which it has never allowed the U.S. government to
view.
Gene Brown, who was employed by the Defense Intelligence Agency (DIA)
for a period of time in 1992 and 1993, told the U.S. Veteran Dispatch that,
while in Hanoi, he had been inside a vault which contained wall-to-wall film
and
that there appeared to be approximately 50 hours of film about McCain.
Brown, who was in Hanoi secretly working for the DIA under the code name
"Druid Smoke" succeeded in smuggling nearly 4,500 photographs out of Hanoi
by
buying them from Communist officials with money supplied by the DIA. The
photos, most of which had never been seen by the U.S. government, were taken
during the Vietnam War and depicted, Americans killed in the war and the
wreckage of many U.S. aircraft.
To avoid embarrassing the COMMUNISTS, USG officials declared the release
of Brown's black market photographs "important progress" and "unprecedented
cooperation" toward resolving cooperation.
Garnett Bell, a 30 year employee of DOD and former chief of the U.S.
office for POW/MIA Affairs in Hanoi, told the U.S. Veteran Dispatch that he
had
actually seen some film footage of McCain taken by the Vietnamese when
McCain did
not know he was being filmed.
Last month the United Press International (UPI) quoted the Cambodian
Khmer Rouge accusing McCain of being a "Vietnamese Agent."
"Who is John McCain?" the rebel group asked rhetorically in a radio
broad-case monitored in Bangkok.
"He is Vietnamese. He has a Vietnamese wife and Vietnamese children. He
is an American by nationality, but he is a Vietnamese agent..."
MCCAIN THE COLLABORATOR
From the first days of McCain's captivity, he seriously violated the
Military
Code of Conduct, which outlines the basic responsibilitiese and
obligations of members of the Armed Forces of the United States who have
been captured by the enemy.
According to documentation obtained by the U.S. Veteran Dispatch, not
only did POW McCain promise to give the COMMUNISTS "military information" in
exchange for special hospital care not ordinarily available to U.S.
prisoners,
but he also made numerous anti-war radio
broadcasts.
Article V of the Code of Conduct is very specific in declaring that U.S.
military personnel are required to avoid answering questions to the
utmost of their ability and to make no oral or written statements disloyal
to the
United States and its allies or harmful to their cause. Any violation of
this
code is considered collaborating with the enemy.
The following is McCain's own admission of collaboration in an article he
wrote, printed May 14, 1973 in U.S. News and World Report:
"I think it was on the fourth day [after being shot down] that two guards
came
in, instead of one. One of them pulled back the blanket to show the
other guard my injury. I looked at my knee. It was about the size, shape and
color
of a football. I remembered that when I was a flying instructor a fellow had
ejected from his plane and broken his thigh. He had gone into shock, the
blood
had pooled in his leg, and he died, which came as quite a surprise to us - a
man dying of a broken leg. Then I realized that a very similar thing was
happening to me.
"When I saw it, I said to the guard, `O.K., get the officer.'"
"An officer came in after a few minutes. It was the man that we came to
know very well as "The Bug." He was a psychotic torturer, one of the worst
fiends that we had to deal with. I said, `O.K., I'll give you military
information if you will take me to the hospital.'"
THE ADMIRAL'S SON GETS "SPECIAL" TREATMENT
McCain claims it was only a coincidence that, about the same time he was
begging to be taken to a hospital, the Vietnamese learned his father was
Admiral John S. McCain, Jr., commander of all U.S. forces in Europe and
soon-to-be commander of all U.S. forces in the Pacific, including
Vietnam.
McCain does concede he survived because the Vietnamese learned who his
father was, rushing him to a hospital where his wounds were eagery treated.
The former POW admitted in the U.S. News and World Report article that
the Vietnamese usually left other U.S. prisoners with similar wounds to die,
not wishing to waste medication on them. McCain pointed out "there were
hardly any amputees among the prisoners who came back because the North
Vietnamese just would not give medical treatment to someone who was badly
injured. They weren't going to waste their time."
McCain has failed to mention what he has confided to another U.S.
prisoner, that since the Vietnamese felt they had in their hands such a
"special
prisoner" and propaganda bonanza, a Soviet surgeon was called in to
treat him.
The COMMUNISTS figured that because POW McCain's father was of such high
military rank, McCain was of royalty or the governing circle. They
bragged that they had captured "the crown prince."
His COMMUNIST handlers believed McCain, because he came from a
"royal-family", would, when finally released, return to the United States to
some
important U.S. military or government job. Communist Interrogators and
psychological warfare experts drooled at the thought.
McCain's handlers were very much aware that he would be under great
psychological pressure not to do or say anything that would tarnish the
name of his famous military family.
In fact, the COMMUNISTS considered that to be the key to eventually
breaking and then "turning" their "special" prisoner, using blackmail if
necessary.
According to U.S. government documents, within a week of POW McCain
being transferred to the Gai Lam military hospital, the Hanoi press began
quoting him giving specific military information.
One report dated Nov. 9, 1967 read, "The question of the correspondent,
McCain answered: "My assignment in to the Oriskany, I told myself, was due
to
serious losses of pilots, which were sustained by this aircraft carrier (due
to
raids on the North Vietnamese Territory * VNA), and which necessitated
replacements.
From 10 to 12 pilots were transferred like me from the Forestal to the
Oriskany. Before I was shot down, we had made several sorties. All
together, I made about 23 flights over North Vietnam."
In that article, McCain was further quoted describing the number of
aircraft in his flight, information about rescue ships, and the order of
which his
attack was supposed to take place.
Six weeks after McCain was shot down, he was taken from the hospital and
delivered to Room No. 11 of "The Plantation" and into the hands of two
other POWs, who helped further nurse him along until he was eventually able
to
walk by himself.
Afterwards, his handlers isolated "special prisoner", McCain from other
American prisoners and made him the target of intense psychological
programs.
MCCAIN CONTINUOUSLY VIOLATES THE CODE OF CONDUCT
In direct violation of the Code of Conduct, McCain, who was supposedly
in solitary confinement, met with and was interviewed by several foreign
news reporters and political delegations, including many high-ranking North
Vietnamese leaders, such as Gen. Vo Nguyen Giap, North Vietnam's
Minister of Defense and natinal hero.
Through the Freedom of Information Act, the U.S. Veteran Dispatch
acquired a declassified Department of Defense (DOD) transcript of an
interview
prominent french television reporter Francois Chalais had with McCain.
Chalais told of his private interview with POW McCain in a series titled
"Life in Hanoi", which was aired in Europe. In the series, Chalais said his
neeting with McCain was "a meeting which will leave its mark on my life."
"My meeting with John Sidney McCain was certainly one of those meetings
which will affect me most profoundly for the rest of my life. I had asked
the
North Vietnamese authorities to allow me to peronally interrogate an
American
Prisoners. They authorized me to do so. When night fell, they took me
without any precautions or mystery --- to a hospital near the Gia Lam
airport
reserved for the military (passage omitted). The officer who receives me
begins: "I ask you not to ask any questions of political nature. If this
man replies in a way unfavorable to us, they will not hesitate to speak of
`brainwashing' and conclude that we threatened him.
"This John McCain is not an ordinary prisoner. His father is none other
than Admiral Edmond John McCain, commander in chief of U.S. Naval forces in
Europe.
(passage omitted).
Another declassified DOD document reports an interview between POW
McCain and Dr. Fernando Barral, a Spanish psychiatrist who was living in
Cuba at
the time.
The interview was published in the Havana Gramma in January 1970.
According to the DOD report, the meeting between Barral and McCain took
place away from the prison at the office of the Committee for Foreign
Cultural
Relations in Hanoi. During that interview, POW McCain sipped coffee and ate
oranges and cakes with his interrogator.
During that interview, McCain again seriously violated the Code of
Conduct by failing to "evade answering questions" to the "utmost" of his
ability
when he, according to the DOD report, helped Barral by answering questions
in
Spanish, a language McCain had learned in school.
On Dec. 7, 1969, McCain was moved out of isolation and into the "Hanoi
Hilton" with other prisoners of war.
MCCAIN IS HANOI'S LEADING ADVOCATE
Today, McCain, who claims he was brutally tortured by the Communist
Vietnamese,
has in??focally emerged as Hanoi's leading advocate for normalizaed
relations with the United States.
McCain's high-profile and unrelenting support for a government that
brutally tortured and murdered his fellow POWs is causing POW/MIA Family
members
and fellow Vietnam veterans to question the senator and his motivations.
They ask what drives McCain, who owes his public life to the tag "former
POW," to work so hard for Hanoi and so diligently to discredit any
possibility, in fact the probability, that Hanoi held back live U.S.
prisoners of war
after the 1973 prisoner release.
The POW/MIA families point out that they worked hard during the Vietnam
War to secure McCain's freedom when he was being held by the Communists and
the
familes want to know why he is now betraying them in their efforts to
get answers about their missing loved ones.
None of the senators who served on the 1991-92 Senate Select Committee
on POW/MIA Affairs were as vicious in their attacks on POW/MIA family
members, veterans, and activists than McCain.
During the POW/MIA hearings, Frances Zwenig, the $118,000-a-year staff
director of the Senate Select Committee, reported to McCain that she was
told by
the Vietnamese, during a July 1992 meeting with the Vietnamese, that
something had to be done about the POW/MIA
activists who were opposing lifting the U.S. imposed trade embargo against
Vietnam.
Not long after, McCain started demanding that the Select Committee
investigate the activists, prompting one observer to ask, "Are the
Vietnamese now
directing the affairs of the Senate Select Committee?"
McCain accused the POW/MIA families and activists who openly challenged
the U.S. government's POW/MIA policy, of fraud. In his attacks he said, "The
people who have done these things are not zealots in a good cause. They are
criminals and some of the most craven, most cynical, and most despicable
human
beings to ever run a scam."
McCain took the lead in the Senate and demanded a U.S. Justice
Department investigation of the activists. The Justice Department did
investigate
and found no reason to charge any of the POW/MIA activists.
When one of McCain's former interrogators, Col Bui Tin, a former Senior
Colonel in the North Vietnamese Army, testified before the Senate Select
Committee, McCain did not display that same "pit bull" inclination to attack
as he
did for the POW/MIA families and activists. Col Tin told the committee that
because of his high position in the Communist Party during the war, he had
the
right to "read all the documents and secret telegrams from the Politburo"
pertaining to American prisoners of war. He said not only did the Soviets
interrogate
some American prisoners of war, but they treated them very badly.
During a break in the hearing, McCain warmly embraced Bui Tin as if he
were a long lost brother. McCain fought a hard and successful campaign to
get
the U.S.-impoed trade embargo against Vietnam lifted, despite the opposition
of all major veterans organizatinos, the two POW/MIA family groups, and the
majority of the Vietnamese Americans in this country. The veterans want to
know
why McCain, the "conservative" politician, takes such strong stand for
the Vietnamese COMMUNISTS and against such partiotic groups?
JOHN SIDNEY MCCAIN, III
John McCain was born in the Panama Canal Zone on August 29, 1936. His
father was Admiral John McCain II, who became commander-in-chief of the
Pacific
forces in 1968. Admiral McCain later ordered the bombing of Hanoi while his
son
was being held there as a prisoner of war. His grandfather was Admiral John
S. McCain, Sr., the famous commander of aircraft carriers in the Pacific
under Admiral William F. Halsey in World War II.
McCain's early years were spent in various places on both the east and
west coats. He attended Episcopal High School Alexandria, VA., and graduated
from the U.S. Naval Academy in June 1958.
His grades in electrical engineering were "satisfactory", although he had
numerous demerits for breakng curfews and infractions and he graduated fifth
from the bottom of his class.
Nevertheless, in spire of his low class standing, his request for
training as a Navy pilot was granted, no doubt his father's rank of admiral
and family
history playing part in the decision.
After qualifying as a Navy pilot, McCain was shipped to Vietnam.
On his 23rd mission over North Vietnam on Oct 26, 1967, McCain was shot
down by a surface-to-air missile.
To relate the event, McCain later recalled that he was flying right over
the heart of Hanoi in a dive at about 4,500 feet, when a Russian missile the
size of a telephone pole came up -- the sky was full of them -- and blew the
right wing off my Skyhawk dive bomber. It went into an
inverted, almost straight-down spin.
"I pulled the ejection handle, and was knocked unconscious by the force
of the ejection -- the air speed was about 300 knots. I didn't realize it at
the moment, but I had broken my right leg around the knee, my right arm in
three places and my left arm. I regained consciousness just before I landed
by
parachute in a lake right in the center of Hanoi, one they called the
Western Lake. My helmet and my oxygen mask had been blown off.
"I hit the water and sank to the bottom.....I did not feel any pain at
the time, and I was able to rise to the surface. I took a breath of air and
started sinking again."
After bobbing up and down, McCain said he was eventually pulled from the
water by Vietnamese who swam out to get him.
He said a mob gathered on shore and that he was bayoneted in the foot
and his shoulder was smashed with a rifle butt. He said he was put on a
truck
and taken to Hanoi's main prison.
THE "RHINESTONE HERO"
In Congress, McCain's peers tout him as a great war hero. On occasion,
the press categorizes McCain as one of the most tortured prisoners of the
Vietnam War. Neither is true. He was never brutally tortured and, by his own
admission, he collaborated with the COMMUNISTS.
When one totals McCain's 23 missions over North Vietnam, times the
number of minutes he was actually over enemy territory (approximately 20 to
35
minutes per mission), McCain's total time over Vietnam before being shot
down, was about 10 1/2 hours.
For those 10 1/2 hours over Vietnam, McCain, the Admiral's son, was
awarded two Silver Stars, two Legions of Merit, two Distinguished Flying
Crosses,
three Bronze Stars, the Vietnamese Legion of Honor and three Purple Hearts
averaging over one hero medal per hour.
Compare McCain's 10 1/2 hours of combat and 13 medals to that of a U.S.
infantry private who spent 365 days trudging through South Vietam's
jungle and mud, facing death on a daily basis. He was lucky to leave Vietnam
with a
simple good conduct ribbon.
Compare McCain's record as a prisoner of war to that of Army Special
Forces Captain "Rocky" Versace, who was captured by Vietnamese Communists
(Viet
Cong) on Oct. 29, 1963 in South Vietnam and who resisted his captors to the
end. Very few, if any, in Congress know about Capt. Versace.
He spent two years chained in a bamboo cage and endured almost daily
torture by the Vietnamese Communists. Capt. Versace continuously frustrated
his
Viet Cong interrogators by refusing to obey demands that he denounce America
and
accept the Communist Philosophy of revolution. He told his captors as they
were
dragging him to an interrogation hut, "I am an officer of the United
States Army. You can force me to come here, you can make me sit and listen,
but
I don't have to believe a damn word you say."
The Viet Cong decided that day to take no more resistance from Rocky
Versace. A few days later, one orders of Viet Cong leader Vo Van Kiet, today
Vietnam's prime minister and McCain's friend, Versace was dragged from his
filth-ridden, mosquito-infested bamboo cage for the last time and forced to
kneel with
his forehead pressed into the jungle mud. Cap. Versace was then shot in the
back of the head.
McCain doesn't talk about MIAs Capt. Rocky Versace, from Norfolk, VA.,
or Sgt. Kenneth Roraback of Fayetteville, N.C., or Army Sgt. Harold Bennett
of
Perryville, Ark., who were all ordered executed by his friend, "BUTCHER"
Kiet, according to reports.
Compare McCain, the POW hero, to another fellow prisoner of war, Marine
Capt. Donald Cook, who was posthumously awarded the Medal of Honor. Capt.
Cook
was awarded our nation's highest award for valor because, during his years
of captivity, he jeopardized his own health by sharing his meager supply of
food and scarce medicines with other U.S. prisoners who were more sick. He
becamse legendary for his refusal to betray the military Code of Conduct. On
one
occasion, Vo Van Kiet's Viet Cong cadre put a pistol to Capt. Cook's
head, demanding that he denounce the United States. Capt. Cook, resisted and
calmly recited the nonemclature of the parts of the pistol, giving the
Communists nothing.
The Viet Cong were so infuriated at Capt. Cook's resistance that they
isolated him from other American prisoners. They intentionally denied him
much
needed food and medicine. Like Capt. Versace, Capt. Cook disappeared and was
never heard from again. Today, Hanoi claims Capt. Cook died as a result of
malaria and that they do not know where his remains are buried.
McCain discouragese any talk about Capt. Versace, Sgt. Roraback, Sgt.
Bennett, and Capt. Cook.
To talk about such patriots would require the United States to demand
the return of their remains, or, at the very least, records of their deaths.
If those MIAs are proven dead and their remains returned, then McCain's
friend, Vo Van Kiet, would be forced to explain the holes in the back of
their
skulls and why he had ordered the POWs murdered.
John McCain is NO Hero. He violated the military Code of Conduct and
willfully collaborated with the Vietnamese, Soviets, and Cubans.
It is not yet publicly known just how much he collaborated and what kind
of favors he recieved in return. Those in the U.S. government that do know
are not talking.
Here's a site you can check out: http://geckocountry.com/mccain.htm
Comments
"GOP Presidential hopeful Senator John McCain remains an enigma to many.
He has been heralded as a 'war hero' and a 'collaborator'. He wears a
conservative republican coat, but acts like a 'moderate democrat'. Why do
some people we would expect to supporting Senator McCain, hold him in such
unbridled
contempt?
The following article may provide you with some additional insight into
what Paul Harvey would call '....the REST of the story'.
ARIZONA'S JOHN McCAIN: A Fraud, "Rhinestone Hero," and National Security
Risk
Special Two-Part Series Article By Ted Sampley THE U.S. VETERAN
DISPATCH, JULY
1995, SPECIAL EDITION
John McCain the second-term Republican senator from Arizona and former
Navy pilot captured and held prisoner during the Vietnam War, is a fraud,
collaborator, and danger to the security of the United States because he
is being black-mailed by the COMMUNIST Vietnamese. He is a phony--a
"rhinestone hero."
While a prisoner of war, McCain was treated as a "special prisoner,"
with privileges including being given his own private and affectionate
nurse.
McCain's treatment as a "special prisoner" is a contradiction to his
much publicized image of a great war hero who was severely tortured and kept
in solitary confinement for long period's of time because he refused to
break during interrogation.
Ted Guy, a former Air Force Colonel held 5 1/2 years by the Vietnamese
and McCain's senior ranking officer (SRO) in the POW camp, told the U.S.
Veteran Dispatch he cannot remember the
communists ever laying a hand on McCain.
Other sources have told the U.S. Veteran Dispatch that the Vietnamese
are holding as much as fifty hours of film footage secretly taken of McCain
during the time his KGB-trained handlers had him isolated from other U.S.
prisoners of war.
Some of the film, according to the sources, is of McCain receiving
special privileges during the time he claims he was being tortured and held
in
long-term solitary confinement.
The sources say interrogators have candid camera footage of McCain with
the nurse, who allegedly supplied him with more than just medical attention
during those lonely days and nights in so-called solitary confinement.
In June 1992, Trung Hieu, a film director from the Vietnamese Ministry
of Culture and former North Vietnamese Army photographer, told the U.S.
Veteran Dispatch that Hanoi does have considerable film of POW McCain and
some
of it involves a Vietnamese woman.
Trung, who worked during the war as an official photographer in North
Vietnam's POW camps, was in the United States seeking political asylum when
he
told the U.S. Veterans Dispatch about the film.
Trung also said that during the war he photographed a nearly intact B-52
bomber, which was shot down at the edge of an air field near Hanoi in
December 1972. He said the North Vietnamese traded the B-52 and some of its
surviving crew members to the Soviets for three
MIG-23 jet interceptors. Trung said the Soviets wanted to interrogate
the crew about U.S. electronic warfare.
Trung said he took movie film of an American F-111 fighter bomber also
shot down in 1972.
He said the F-111 capsule, along with the surviving crew, was sent to
China. The crew, according to Trung, was later returned to Hanoi.
McCain, who was a member of the 1992 Senate Select Committee on POW/MIA
Affairs, argued emotionally during the hearings that "none of the
returned U.S. prisoners of war released by Vietnam were ever interrogated by
the
Soviets."
Trung has said Hanoi has a large, secret vault containing shelves loaded
with POW/MIA related film, which it has never allowed the U.S. government to
view.
Gene Brown, who was employed by the Defense Intelligence Agency (DIA)
for a period of time in 1992 and 1993, told the U.S. Veteran Dispatch that,
while in Hanoi, he had been inside a vault which contained wall-to-wall film
and
that there appeared to be approximately 50 hours of film about McCain.
Brown, who was in Hanoi secretly working for the DIA under the code name
"Druid Smoke" succeeded in smuggling nearly 4,500 photographs out of Hanoi
by
buying them from Communist officials with money supplied by the DIA. The
photos, most of which had never been seen by the U.S. government, were taken
during the Vietnam War and depicted, Americans killed in the war and the
wreckage of many U.S. aircraft.
To avoid embarrassing the COMMUNISTS, USG officials declared the release
of Brown's black market photographs "important progress" and "unprecedented
cooperation" toward resolving cooperation.
Garnett Bell, a 30 year employee of DOD and former chief of the U.S.
office for POW/MIA Affairs in Hanoi, told the U.S. Veteran Dispatch that he
had
actually seen some film footage of McCain taken by the Vietnamese when
McCain did
not know he was being filmed.
Last month the United Press International (UPI) quoted the Cambodian
Khmer Rouge accusing McCain of being a "Vietnamese Agent."
"Who is John McCain?" the rebel group asked rhetorically in a radio
broad-case monitored in Bangkok.
"He is Vietnamese. He has a Vietnamese wife and Vietnamese children. He
is an American by nationality, but he is a Vietnamese agent..."
MCCAIN THE COLLABORATOR
From the first days of McCain's captivity, he seriously violated the
Military
Code of Conduct, which outlines the basic responsibilitiese and
obligations of members of the Armed Forces of the United States who have
been captured by the enemy.
According to documentation obtained by the U.S. Veteran Dispatch, not
only did POW McCain promise to give the COMMUNISTS "military information" in
exchange for special hospital care not ordinarily available to U.S.
prisoners,
but he also made numerous anti-war radio
broadcasts.
Article V of the Code of Conduct is very specific in declaring that U.S.
military personnel are required to avoid answering questions to the
utmost of their ability and to make no oral or written statements disloyal
to the
United States and its allies or harmful to their cause. Any violation of
this
code is considered collaborating with the enemy.
The following is McCain's own admission of collaboration in an article he
wrote, printed May 14, 1973 in U.S. News and World Report:
"I think it was on the fourth day [after being shot down] that two guards
came
in, instead of one. One of them pulled back the blanket to show the
other guard my injury. I looked at my knee. It was about the size, shape and
color
of a football. I remembered that when I was a flying instructor a fellow had
ejected from his plane and broken his thigh. He had gone into shock, the
blood
had pooled in his leg, and he died, which came as quite a surprise to us - a
man dying of a broken leg. Then I realized that a very similar thing was
happening to me.
"When I saw it, I said to the guard, `O.K., get the officer.'"
"An officer came in after a few minutes. It was the man that we came to
know very well as "The Bug." He was a psychotic torturer, one of the worst
fiends that we had to deal with. I said, `O.K., I'll give you military
information if you will take me to the hospital.'"
THE ADMIRAL'S SON GETS "SPECIAL" TREATMENT
McCain claims it was only a coincidence that, about the same time he was
begging to be taken to a hospital, the Vietnamese learned his father was
Admiral John S. McCain, Jr., commander of all U.S. forces in Europe and
soon-to-be commander of all U.S. forces in the Pacific, including
Vietnam.
McCain does concede he survived because the Vietnamese learned who his
father was, rushing him to a hospital where his wounds were eagery treated.
The former POW admitted in the U.S. News and World Report article that
the Vietnamese usually left other U.S. prisoners with similar wounds to die,
not wishing to waste medication on them. McCain pointed out "there were
hardly any amputees among the prisoners who came back because the North
Vietnamese just would not give medical treatment to someone who was badly
injured. They weren't going to waste their time."
McCain has failed to mention what he has confided to another U.S.
prisoner, that since the Vietnamese felt they had in their hands such a
"special
prisoner" and propaganda bonanza, a Soviet surgeon was called in to
treat him.
The COMMUNISTS figured that because POW McCain's father was of such high
military rank, McCain was of royalty or the governing circle. They
bragged that they had captured "the crown prince."
His COMMUNIST handlers believed McCain, because he came from a
"royal-family", would, when finally released, return to the United States to
some
important U.S. military or government job. Communist Interrogators and
psychological warfare experts drooled at the thought.
McCain's handlers were very much aware that he would be under great
psychological pressure not to do or say anything that would tarnish the
name of his famous military family.
In fact, the COMMUNISTS considered that to be the key to eventually
breaking and then "turning" their "special" prisoner, using blackmail if
necessary.
According to U.S. government documents, within a week of POW McCain
being transferred to the Gai Lam military hospital, the Hanoi press began
quoting him giving specific military information.
One report dated Nov. 9, 1967 read, "The question of the correspondent,
McCain answered: "My assignment in to the Oriskany, I told myself, was due
to
serious losses of pilots, which were sustained by this aircraft carrier (due
to
raids on the North Vietnamese Territory * VNA), and which necessitated
replacements.
From 10 to 12 pilots were transferred like me from the Forestal to the
Oriskany. Before I was shot down, we had made several sorties. All
together, I made about 23 flights over North Vietnam."
In that article, McCain was further quoted describing the number of
aircraft in his flight, information about rescue ships, and the order of
which his
attack was supposed to take place.
Six weeks after McCain was shot down, he was taken from the hospital and
delivered to Room No. 11 of "The Plantation" and into the hands of two
other POWs, who helped further nurse him along until he was eventually able
to
walk by himself.
Afterwards, his handlers isolated "special prisoner", McCain from other
American prisoners and made him the target of intense psychological
programs.
MCCAIN CONTINUOUSLY VIOLATES THE CODE OF CONDUCT
In direct violation of the Code of Conduct, McCain, who was supposedly
in solitary confinement, met with and was interviewed by several foreign
news reporters and political delegations, including many high-ranking North
Vietnamese leaders, such as Gen. Vo Nguyen Giap, North Vietnam's
Minister of Defense and natinal hero.
Through the Freedom of Information Act, the U.S. Veteran Dispatch
acquired a declassified Department of Defense (DOD) transcript of an
interview
prominent french television reporter Francois Chalais had with McCain.
Chalais told of his private interview with POW McCain in a series titled
"Life in Hanoi", which was aired in Europe. In the series, Chalais said his
neeting with McCain was "a meeting which will leave its mark on my life."
"My meeting with John Sidney McCain was certainly one of those meetings
which will affect me most profoundly for the rest of my life. I had asked
the
North Vietnamese authorities to allow me to peronally interrogate an
American
Prisoners. They authorized me to do so. When night fell, they took me
without any precautions or mystery --- to a hospital near the Gia Lam
airport
reserved for the military (passage omitted). The officer who receives me
begins: "I ask you not to ask any questions of political nature. If this
man replies in a way unfavorable to us, they will not hesitate to speak of
`brainwashing' and conclude that we threatened him.
"This John McCain is not an ordinary prisoner. His father is none other
than Admiral Edmond John McCain, commander in chief of U.S. Naval forces in
Europe.
(passage omitted).
Another declassified DOD document reports an interview between POW
McCain and Dr. Fernando Barral, a Spanish psychiatrist who was living in
Cuba at
the time.
The interview was published in the Havana Gramma in January 1970.
According to the DOD report, the meeting between Barral and McCain took
place away from the prison at the office of the Committee for Foreign
Cultural
Relations in Hanoi. During that interview, POW McCain sipped coffee and ate
oranges and cakes with his interrogator.
During that interview, McCain again seriously violated the Code of
Conduct by failing to "evade answering questions" to the "utmost" of his
ability
when he, according to the DOD report, helped Barral by answering questions
in
Spanish, a language McCain had learned in school.
On Dec. 7, 1969, McCain was moved out of isolation and into the "Hanoi
Hilton" with other prisoners of war.
MCCAIN IS HANOI'S LEADING ADVOCATE
Today, McCain, who claims he was brutally tortured by the Communist
Vietnamese,
has in??focally emerged as Hanoi's leading advocate for normalizaed
relations with the United States.
McCain's high-profile and unrelenting support for a government that
brutally tortured and murdered his fellow POWs is causing POW/MIA Family
members
and fellow Vietnam veterans to question the senator and his motivations.
They ask what drives McCain, who owes his public life to the tag "former
POW," to work so hard for Hanoi and so diligently to discredit any
possibility, in fact the probability, that Hanoi held back live U.S.
prisoners of war
after the 1973 prisoner release.
The POW/MIA families point out that they worked hard during the Vietnam
War to secure McCain's freedom when he was being held by the Communists and
the
familes want to know why he is now betraying them in their efforts to
get answers about their missing loved ones.
None of the senators who served on the 1991-92 Senate Select Committee
on POW/MIA Affairs were as vicious in their attacks on POW/MIA family
members, veterans, and activists than McCain.
During the POW/MIA hearings, Frances Zwenig, the $118,000-a-year staff
director of the Senate Select Committee, reported to McCain that she was
told by
the Vietnamese, during a July 1992 meeting with the Vietnamese, that
something had to be done about the POW/MIA
activists who were opposing lifting the U.S. imposed trade embargo against
Vietnam.
Not long after, McCain started demanding that the Select Committee
investigate the activists, prompting one observer to ask, "Are the
Vietnamese now
directing the affairs of the Senate Select Committee?"
McCain accused the POW/MIA families and activists who openly challenged
the U.S. government's POW/MIA policy, of fraud. In his attacks he said, "The
people who have done these things are not zealots in a good cause. They are
criminals and some of the most craven, most cynical, and most despicable
human
beings to ever run a scam."
McCain took the lead in the Senate and demanded a U.S. Justice
Department investigation of the activists. The Justice Department did
investigate
and found no reason to charge any of the POW/MIA activists.
When one of McCain's former interrogators, Col Bui Tin, a former Senior
Colonel in the North Vietnamese Army, testified before the Senate Select
Committee, McCain did not display that same "pit bull" inclination to attack
as he
did for the POW/MIA families and activists. Col Tin told the committee that
because of his high position in the Communist Party during the war, he had
the
right to "read all the documents and secret telegrams from the Politburo"
pertaining to American prisoners of war. He said not only did the Soviets
interrogate
some American prisoners of war, but they treated them very badly.
During a break in the hearing, McCain warmly embraced Bui Tin as if he
were a long lost brother. McCain fought a hard and successful campaign to
get
the U.S.-impoed trade embargo against Vietnam lifted, despite the opposition
of all major veterans organizatinos, the two POW/MIA family groups, and the
majority of the Vietnamese Americans in this country. The veterans want to
know
why McCain, the "conservative" politician, takes such strong stand for
the Vietnamese COMMUNISTS and against such partiotic groups?
JOHN SIDNEY MCCAIN, III
John McCain was born in the Panama Canal Zone on August 29, 1936. His
father was Admiral John McCain II, who became commander-in-chief of the
Pacific
forces in 1968. Admiral McCain later ordered the bombing of Hanoi while his
son
was being held there as a prisoner of war. His grandfather was Admiral John
S. McCain, Sr., the famous commander of aircraft carriers in the Pacific
under Admiral William F. Halsey in World War II.
McCain's early years were spent in various places on both the east and
west coats. He attended Episcopal High School Alexandria, VA., and graduated
from the U.S. Naval Academy in June 1958.
His grades in electrical engineering were "satisfactory", although he had
numerous demerits for breakng curfews and infractions and he graduated fifth
from the bottom of his class.
Nevertheless, in spire of his low class standing, his request for
training as a Navy pilot was granted, no doubt his father's rank of admiral
and family
history playing part in the decision.
After qualifying as a Navy pilot, McCain was shipped to Vietnam.
On his 23rd mission over North Vietnam on Oct 26, 1967, McCain was shot
down by a surface-to-air missile.
To relate the event, McCain later recalled that he was flying right over
the heart of Hanoi in a dive at about 4,500 feet, when a Russian missile the
size of a telephone pole came up -- the sky was full of them -- and blew the
right wing off my Skyhawk dive bomber. It went into an
inverted, almost straight-down spin.
"I pulled the ejection handle, and was knocked unconscious by the force
of the ejection -- the air speed was about 300 knots. I didn't realize it at
the moment, but I had broken my right leg around the knee, my right arm in
three places and my left arm. I regained consciousness just before I landed
by
parachute in a lake right in the center of Hanoi, one they called the
Western Lake. My helmet and my oxygen mask had been blown off.
"I hit the water and sank to the bottom.....I did not feel any pain at
the time, and I was able to rise to the surface. I took a breath of air and
started sinking again."
After bobbing up and down, McCain said he was eventually pulled from the
water by Vietnamese who swam out to get him.
He said a mob gathered on shore and that he was bayoneted in the foot
and his shoulder was smashed with a rifle butt. He said he was put on a
truck
and taken to Hanoi's main prison.
THE "RHINESTONE HERO"
In Congress, McCain's peers tout him as a great war hero. On occasion,
the press categorizes McCain as one of the most tortured prisoners of the
Vietnam War. Neither is true. He was never brutally tortured and, by his own
admission, he collaborated with the COMMUNISTS.
When one totals McCain's 23 missions over North Vietnam, times the
number of minutes he was actually over enemy territory (approximately 20 to
35
minutes per mission), McCain's total time over Vietnam before being shot
down, was about 10 1/2 hours.
For those 10 1/2 hours over Vietnam, McCain, the Admiral's son, was
awarded two Silver Stars, two Legions of Merit, two Distinguished Flying
Crosses,
three Bronze Stars, the Vietnamese Legion of Honor and three Purple Hearts
averaging over one hero medal per hour.
Compare McCain's 10 1/2 hours of combat and 13 medals to that of a U.S.
infantry private who spent 365 days trudging through South Vietam's
jungle and mud, facing death on a daily basis. He was lucky to leave Vietnam
with a
simple good conduct ribbon.
Compare McCain's record as a prisoner of war to that of Army Special
Forces Captain "Rocky" Versace, who was captured by Vietnamese Communists
(Viet
Cong) on Oct. 29, 1963 in South Vietnam and who resisted his captors to the
end. Very few, if any, in Congress know about Capt. Versace.
He spent two years chained in a bamboo cage and endured almost daily
torture by the Vietnamese Communists. Capt. Versace continuously frustrated
his
Viet Cong interrogators by refusing to obey demands that he denounce America
and
accept the Communist Philosophy of revolution. He told his captors as they
were
dragging him to an interrogation hut, "I am an officer of the United
States Army. You can force me to come here, you can make me sit and listen,
but
I don't have to believe a damn word you say."
The Viet Cong decided that day to take no more resistance from Rocky
Versace. A few days later, one orders of Viet Cong leader Vo Van Kiet, today
Vietnam's prime minister and McCain's friend, Versace was dragged from his
filth-ridden, mosquito-infested bamboo cage for the last time and forced to
kneel with
his forehead pressed into the jungle mud. Cap. Versace was then shot in the
back of the head.
McCain doesn't talk about MIAs Capt. Rocky Versace, from Norfolk, VA.,
or Sgt. Kenneth Roraback of Fayetteville, N.C., or Army Sgt. Harold Bennett
of
Perryville, Ark., who were all ordered executed by his friend, "BUTCHER"
Kiet, according to reports.
Compare McCain, the POW hero, to another fellow prisoner of war, Marine
Capt. Donald Cook, who was posthumously awarded the Medal of Honor. Capt.
Cook
was awarded our nation's highest award for valor because, during his years
of captivity, he jeopardized his own health by sharing his meager supply of
food and scarce medicines with other U.S. prisoners who were more sick. He
becamse legendary for his refusal to betray the military Code of Conduct. On
one
occasion, Vo Van Kiet's Viet Cong cadre put a pistol to Capt. Cook's
head, demanding that he denounce the United States. Capt. Cook, resisted and
calmly recited the nonemclature of the parts of the pistol, giving the
Communists nothing.
The Viet Cong were so infuriated at Capt. Cook's resistance that they
isolated him from other American prisoners. They intentionally denied him
much
needed food and medicine. Like Capt. Versace, Capt. Cook disappeared and was
never heard from again. Today, Hanoi claims Capt. Cook died as a result of
malaria and that they do not know where his remains are buried.
McCain discouragese any talk about Capt. Versace, Sgt. Roraback, Sgt.
Bennett, and Capt. Cook.
To talk about such patriots would require the United States to demand
the return of their remains, or, at the very least, records of their deaths.
If those MIAs are proven dead and their remains returned, then McCain's
friend, Vo Van Kiet, would be forced to explain the holes in the back of
their
skulls and why he had ordered the POWs murdered.
John McCain is NO Hero. He violated the military Code of Conduct and
willfully collaborated with the Vietnamese, Soviets, and Cubans.
It is not yet publicly known just how much he collaborated and what kind
of favors he recieved in return. Those in the U.S. government that do know
are not talking.
Allen_Raiford
New member
A nice long article full of conjecture and inuendo, but a little short of proof of cowardice and treason. There have been reports of honorable conduct on the part of McCain by his former cellmates. I take their word over that of some disgruntled kook with a hardon for McCain. Dismissing McCain's 23 combat missions over Hanoi does little to bolster the authors credibility.
Desertscout
New member
I hardly call it conjecture and inuendo but, hey, you're free to vote as your conscience dictates. That's one of the things that makes this country great.
Personally, I wouldn't pi$$ on him if he was on fire
Personally, I wouldn't pi$$ on him if he was on fire
Greetings To All, I would like to ask Desertscout if he ever served in the
military, and if so what branch and
during what time? Maybe, just maybe
you are bashing Senator McCain for
unjust and unfounded reasons. All
of that propaganda BS won't keep
me from voting for the Senator!!!
Recently while in my local barber
shop, the female owner stated that
she could not vote for the Senator.
When asked why; she replied, "Oh!
because he has had two wives". I
said, "Hell's Bell's, I don't
need a haircut after all", got up
walked out and slammed the door.
I will never, ever stop for a
haircut at that shop again. Who
knows, I might go home and run
my old lady off this morning;
and turn around and remarry
before the ink get's dry, from
where the Judge signed it!!!
Best Wishes,
Ala Dan, N.R.A. Life Member
military, and if so what branch and
during what time? Maybe, just maybe
you are bashing Senator McCain for
unjust and unfounded reasons. All
of that propaganda BS won't keep
me from voting for the Senator!!!
Recently while in my local barber
shop, the female owner stated that
she could not vote for the Senator.
When asked why; she replied, "Oh!
because he has had two wives". I
said, "Hell's Bell's, I don't
need a haircut after all", got up
walked out and slammed the door.
I will never, ever stop for a
haircut at that shop again. Who
knows, I might go home and run
my old lady off this morning;
and turn around and remarry
before the ink get's dry, from
where the Judge signed it!!!
Best Wishes,
Ala Dan, N.R.A. Life Member
Brett Bellmore
New member
One hundred percent on the Second amendment? Hardly. Zero percent on the First amendment, which has value quite apart from the fact that we need it to defend the Second? Absolutely! You name it, and if it violates freedom of speach, or freedom of the press, McCain has supported it... it's not just campaign finance deform with him.
I shoot, sure. I also shoot my mouth off...
------------------
Sic semper tyrannis!
I shoot, sure. I also shoot my mouth off...
------------------
Sic semper tyrannis!
Ok listen up!!
All these comments are comming from everywhere BUT Arizona. John McCain is in office only because of his wife's MONEY. His father in law is the biggest Budweiser distributor in the state. Now before all you Bud drinkers out there get a hardon,and go out to vote for this creep, know that he divorced his wife of 14 years to marry this rich hussy so that he could further his political carreer. This boozo has taken more money from lobbyist's over the years than George could ever dream about. As for supporting your gun rights, as long as the NRA gives him more MONEY than HCI, he will be more than glad to vote with us. Do you get my point?
I am from AZ, and I DO NOT TRUST JOHN McCAIN.
Do us all a favor, and vote for either Allen Keyes, or George Bush.
------------------
Just as there is no such thing as too much fun,
there is no such thing as owning just one gun!!!
Off my meds (quit smoking), armed to the teeth, and loose on an unsuspecting society!!!
All these comments are comming from everywhere BUT Arizona. John McCain is in office only because of his wife's MONEY. His father in law is the biggest Budweiser distributor in the state. Now before all you Bud drinkers out there get a hardon,and go out to vote for this creep, know that he divorced his wife of 14 years to marry this rich hussy so that he could further his political carreer. This boozo has taken more money from lobbyist's over the years than George could ever dream about. As for supporting your gun rights, as long as the NRA gives him more MONEY than HCI, he will be more than glad to vote with us. Do you get my point?
I am from AZ, and I DO NOT TRUST JOHN McCAIN.
Do us all a favor, and vote for either Allen Keyes, or George Bush.
------------------
Just as there is no such thing as too much fun,
there is no such thing as owning just one gun!!!
Off my meds (quit smoking), armed to the teeth, and loose on an unsuspecting society!!!
theprisoner
New member
I have hearing a lot of McCain bashing as late and have wondered why and where it is coming from. My personal opinion is that he is an honorable man who served his country but I could be wrong. One question to all of you though, do you really want another Bush in the Whitehouse. After what his father pulled I do not trust any of them. Personally I think all Republicans can go to hell. I don't want anybody controlling my life whether it far left socialists or the hypocrite christian right. Wake up, it is time for a real change, maybe not this election or the next but we got to get rid of this idiotic two party system that caters to ignorance and apathy. I am so sick of them all!
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I AM NOT NUMBER! I AM A FREE MAN!
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[This message has been edited by theprisoner (edited February 22, 2000).]
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I AM NOT NUMBER! I AM A FREE MAN!
[This message has been edited by theprisoner (edited February 22, 2000).]
[This message has been edited by theprisoner (edited February 22, 2000).]
George Hill
Staff Alumnus
That is a nice article... But it quoted no solid sources for the article - I cant believe everything a journalist writes.
Where is the backing to that? There is no PROOF that McCain is a turn coat. Hardly anything that I would call EVEDIENCE.
I am starting to think the man is SOLID.
He may use Democrate phrases - but taken into context it seems he is using there words against them. He is PRO on many of my issues of concern... which is FAR BETTER than the Bush kid. And certainly better than anyone else running that I have seen.
I may be wrong - cut me a little slack here - I have given up on politics a long time ago and to my own surprise, I am getting my feet wet again. So much so that I myself will be running for a local office in the near future. (I aint kidding about that either!)
Anyways - let me hear some FACTS about McCain. Anyone know his actual VOTING RECORD? Where can we go to find that? Does He have a URL?
Where is the backing to that? There is no PROOF that McCain is a turn coat. Hardly anything that I would call EVEDIENCE.
I am starting to think the man is SOLID.
He may use Democrate phrases - but taken into context it seems he is using there words against them. He is PRO on many of my issues of concern... which is FAR BETTER than the Bush kid. And certainly better than anyone else running that I have seen.
I may be wrong - cut me a little slack here - I have given up on politics a long time ago and to my own surprise, I am getting my feet wet again. So much so that I myself will be running for a local office in the near future. (I aint kidding about that either!)
Anyways - let me hear some FACTS about McCain. Anyone know his actual VOTING RECORD? Where can we go to find that? Does He have a URL?
Guys, let me stick in just a bit of "expertise" here, possibly another way of looking at things.
I have around 250 hours of combat time over VN, another 150 or so over Desert Storm. It has been of interest to me for some time that in our press, at least, the fact of getting shot down and captured somehow makes you a "hero".
Officers volunteered to go to Vietnam for one of two reasons, either because they were warriors or because they were convinced it would advance their career opportunities. I don't even know if McCain volunteered or was simply ordered to go. Hasn't been mentioned to my knowledge.
But once there, you try to do your job and survive, nobody volunteers to be shot down as some sort of heroic act. The fact that he was a POW carries absolute zero weight with me in a political election, the fact that he flew missions over the North carries much more, which still ain't significant. I'm more interested in what he plans to do as president, and what he has done as Senator, both are MUCH more important than his "heroic" war record, of which I know several people whose records make his look like s**t. We ain't electing them, why is it a big deal for him?
Yet the majority of what I hear about him concerns whether or not he is a "war hero".
Who cares?
Larry P.
I have around 250 hours of combat time over VN, another 150 or so over Desert Storm. It has been of interest to me for some time that in our press, at least, the fact of getting shot down and captured somehow makes you a "hero".
Officers volunteered to go to Vietnam for one of two reasons, either because they were warriors or because they were convinced it would advance their career opportunities. I don't even know if McCain volunteered or was simply ordered to go. Hasn't been mentioned to my knowledge.
But once there, you try to do your job and survive, nobody volunteers to be shot down as some sort of heroic act. The fact that he was a POW carries absolute zero weight with me in a political election, the fact that he flew missions over the North carries much more, which still ain't significant. I'm more interested in what he plans to do as president, and what he has done as Senator, both are MUCH more important than his "heroic" war record, of which I know several people whose records make his look like s**t. We ain't electing them, why is it a big deal for him?
Yet the majority of what I hear about him concerns whether or not he is a "war hero".
Who cares?
Larry P.
Jeff Thomas
New member
Larry, thanks for those comments. You have the background to say what I have only wondered ...
And, I'll second the thought - I am from Arizona, and I don't trust McCain either. Is Bush better? Damned if I know, but from what I see, I don't expect him to be worse than McCain.
I will say this - saying that 'John MCains is 100ro-2nd Amendment!!!' (sic) is more than a bit of hyperbole.
Regards from AZ
And, I'll second the thought - I am from Arizona, and I don't trust McCain either. Is Bush better? Damned if I know, but from what I see, I don't expect him to be worse than McCain.
I will say this - saying that 'John MCains is 100ro-2nd Amendment!!!' (sic) is more than a bit of hyperbole.
Regards from AZ
Allen_Raiford
New member
But its a helluva lot closer to the truth than saying he is anti-gun (as some have said).
I respect McCain for his military service. That does not sway me to vote for or against him. I think it is a bit far out to say he was a coward and traitor (as some have said).
I prefer him to Bush because he has been around the block, politically. He is also articulate and can beat the Dems at their own game. With Bush, I fear we will present another candidate who is an empty suit, unable to articulate a clear message, much like his father and Dole.
I do not have any disagreement with Bush, but I think he needs more experience before he becomes the president.
Someone tell me what elected office he held prior to being governor.
I respect McCain for his military service. That does not sway me to vote for or against him. I think it is a bit far out to say he was a coward and traitor (as some have said).
I prefer him to Bush because he has been around the block, politically. He is also articulate and can beat the Dems at their own game. With Bush, I fear we will present another candidate who is an empty suit, unable to articulate a clear message, much like his father and Dole.
I do not have any disagreement with Bush, but I think he needs more experience before he becomes the president.
Someone tell me what elected office he held prior to being governor.
They're all a bunch of pinheads.
For some laughs at Bush's expense: http://kenlayne.com/
[This message has been edited by Hashian (edited February 22, 2000).]
For some laughs at Bush's expense: http://kenlayne.com/
[This message has been edited by Hashian (edited February 22, 2000).]
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