John Bolton resigns

Status
Not open for further replies.
Redworm said:
Liberals do not hate that he would take care of America first. They hate that he and so many others would take care of America first without giving a damn about the lives around the world it destroys.
Click to expand...

Sorry Redworm... I'm just not buying the "hate-america-first" rhetoric your peddling... Our boys and girls in combat boots are putting their lives on the line daily and all you can cite is a fictional "we don't give a damn?" Sorry. That's just wrong on so many levels... We do care... more than any other nation on earth... in humanitarian aid, economic assistance, and religious freedom. Can you name a single nation as benolvent as the United States? Until you can your rant is simply that; anti-American fiction from the left.

Redworm said:
Not at the cost of ostracizing the international community that we cannot live without.
Click to expand...

Is this the same "international community" that belittles our actions at every opportunity then cries for Uncle Sam help whenever they need aid?

Ambassador Bolton is a prime example of an honest man trying to do a worthwhile job; take a lesson.
 
Taking care of America first with no regard for other nations is what got us into this mess. U.S. foreign policy leaves a lot to be desired and is probably responsible for most of the terrorism we have received. Just do a little research and look up all the people we used to support (not to mention sell weapons to). Bin Laden was trained by the CIA. We gave Saddam the go ahead to attack Kuwait. We supported Iran.
Click to expand...

We supported the Mujahadeen against the Soviets, and Bin Laden was a minor player at that time. It wasn't until Desert Storm when we stationed troops in Saudi Arabia (protecting Arabs by the way) that he decided that we were the enemy.

The idea that we gave Saddam "the go ahead" is something he claimed to undermine opposition to him. What was actually said was that the land dispute was something the two nations had to work out and we weren't getting involved. Isn't that what liberals want us to do, not get involved in other nations' messes.

As for Iran, we supported the Shah, and then helped get him out of power. We did not support the current regime, which is a wholly distinct entity.
 
Sorry Redworm... I'm just not buying the "hate-america-first" rhetoric your peddling... Our boys and girls in combat boots are putting their lives on the line daily and all you can cite is a fictional "we don't give a damn?" Sorry. That's just wrong on so many levels... We do care... more than any other nation on earth... in humanitarian aid, economic assistance, and religious freedom. Can you name a single nation as benolvent as the United States? Until you can your rant is simply that; anti-American fiction from the left.
Click to expand...
Hate America first? wtf?? Our boys and girls are putting their lives on the line for Iraqis, not for me. They're being disrespected by the people in charge because they signed up to defend this country and instead are asked to conquor another one. :rolleyes:

No, it's not wrong. We may care on some levels but that doesn't change the fact that America is still responsible for a lot of the same crap we pretend to fight against.

Just because we give foreign aid to African tyrants who starve their people and allow people to worship as they choose does not erase the transgressions we still commit.
Is this the same "international community" that belittles our actions at every opportunity then cries for Uncle Sam help whenever they need aid?

Ambassador Bolton is a prime example of an honest man trying to do a worthwhile job; take a lesson.
Click to expand...
Oh please. :rolleyes: Now who's spewing the rhetoric? Gonna talk about how America saved the world fifty years ago? Can't let anyone forget that, America so gallantly braved into battle out of the kindness of....oh wait, it took an attack on our soil first.

So please show instances of those in the international community belittling America and then asking for help. Try to remember that people in different countries can have different opinions just like we can. One Frenchman's opinion or actions does not reflect upon France.

Honest man?
 
Gates: Iraq a main battlefront in war on terror

Go thank a soldier; the lives he/she has saved may be your own!
Click to expand...
Yeah I just sold my last cow the other day so I have no need for that bull.

We caused the "war on terror" with our foreign policy. We destroyed Iraq and cost fifty thousand Iraqis and three thousand of our people their lives.

I thank my Marine recruiters from time to time. When someone from the deployed units return, I thank them as well. Not for what they did in Iraq but for signing up in the first place. Iraq is not a noble cause but if I'm told to go there I will and I'll do my job like everyone else because maybe one day in the future I'll actually be called to protect my country instead of invading and conquering someone else's.
 
Redworm, before you posted your objection to my opinion, Camp David had posted a pretty good synapsis of Bolton's credentials. I wonder why you didn't comment upon that, but chose instead to comment upon my post.... Regardless, in view of the credentials that CD did post, would you care to rebut with something a little more substantial than a soundbyte (literally) from YouTube?
Redworm said:
It'd be like putting a... pedophile Representative in charge of protecting exploited children.
Click to expand...
That style of analogy undignified, to say the least. Uncalled for to say the most.
I don't really consider the UN to be a worthwhile organization but it's our representation to the international community and America cannot stand alone.
Click to expand...
That fact is, we are standing alone. We need exactly the sort of pitbull that Bolton is. Or do you like the fact that as the only Superpower left in the world, the world still considers us to be a paper tiger? Is that really what you like to see?
We need to be part of the global economy and global community or we will crumble.
Click to expand...
Really? Do you understand that if the US economy tanks, it will bring down the rest of the industrialized world?

As for the rest of your diatribes, sorry, I'm not ready for another Vietnam, and what it subjected our servicemen and women to. You can take your left-leaning rhetoric and place it... well... You know where.

Frankly, I liked it when Reagan growled and upset the internationalists. I liked it when Bush Sr. growled. And I kinda like it when Bush Jr. growls. The world needs to sit up and take note that this nation will not take their crap anymore.
 
Go thank a soldier; the lives he/she has saved may be your own!
Click to expand...

Quit invoking the name of the troops in vain, please. Not all of us agree with what is going on in Iraq, and some feel the same way that Redworm does. I'm pretty sure nothing I did over there was "defending America" or "making America safer."

Stand on the strength of your own arguments, and leave us the heck alone.

Sincerely,
One of the troops
 
JuanCarlos said:
I'm pretty sure nothing I did over there was "defending America" or "making America safer."
Click to expand...

Well JuanCarlos... we here in the homeland are quite appreciative of our Armed Forces and I take exception to your assessment since logic steers me that way; since the War on Terror began no domestic terror attacks have taken place so certainly we have that to be thankful for. Our current administration has been successful in that regard whether you agree or not.

JuanCarlos said:
Stand on the strength of your own arguments
Click to expand...

I did. Current War on Terror policy has protected this nation from terrorist attack. Why change?

Antipitas said:
That fact is, we are standing alone. We need exactly the sort of pitbull that Bolton is.
Click to expand...

Precisely right!
 
Well JuanCarlos... we here in the homeland are quite appreciative of our Armed Forces and I take exception to your assessment since logic steers me that way; since the War on Terror began no domestic terror attacks have taken place so certainly we have that to be thankful for. Our current administration has been successful in that regard whether you agree or not.
Click to expand...

Post hoc ergo propter hoc. It's a logical fallacy, not logic.

It has only been five years since 9/11/01. It had been over five years since the last terrorist attack on US soil when that happened, and over eight years since the last terrorist attack on US soil initiated from abroad...all with no troops in Iraq.

I'm not entirely sure how long it had been before the 1993 WTC bombing, but I highly suspect that you can find many spans of five years, or much longer, in the last century with no terrorist attacks...all without resorting to a massive occupation of another country.

My wife and I started dating shortly after 9/11. Perhaps it's our relationship that's keeping us safe...the timing is right. Who knows!

At best the only reason the War in Iraq (which, since it has it's own separate campaign ribbon and everything I feel comfortable referring to as a distinct subset of the War on Terrorism...whatever that is) has had any affect on our threat of terrorism here in the US would be due to the "flypaper effect." Basically we've tied a bunch of Arabs up killing our boys and girls over there so they'll be too busy to come do it here. Not a long term strategy that I'm fond of, considering I'm part of the bomb bait.
 
Redworm, before you posted your objection to my opinion, Camp David had posted a pretty good synapsis of Bolton's credentials. I wonder why you didn't comment upon that, but chose instead to comment upon my post.... Regardless, in view of the credentials that CD did post, would you care to rebut with something a little more substantial than a soundbyte (literally) from YouTube?
Click to expand...
Because I have no problem with his credentials. It's only his attitude about foreign relations that makes me believe he is a terrible person for this kind of position.

That fact is, we are standing alone. We need exactly the sort of pitbull that Bolton is. Or do you like the fact that as the only Superpower left in the world, the world still considers us to be a paper tiger? Is that really what you like to see?
Click to expand...
So the only positions are paper tiger or imperialist conquerers? There's got to be something in the middle.


Really? Do you understand that if the US economy tanks, it will bring down the rest of the industrialized world?
Click to expand...
Absolutely. I also realize that the US economy depends heavily on our involvement in the global market. The US economy would tank without China supplying us with the majority of our cheap goods, without Japan supplying us with a healthy portion of our technology sector, without Japan and Germany supplying us with a healthy portion of our automotive industry.

As for the rest of your diatribes, sorry, I'm not ready for another Vietnam, and what it subjected our servicemen and women to. You can take your left-leaning rhetoric and place it... well... You know where.

Frankly, I liked it when Reagan growled and upset the internationalists. I liked it when Bush Sr. growled. And I kinda like it when Bush Jr. growls. The world needs to sit up and take note that this nation will not take their crap anymore.
Click to expand...
How is it left leaning to believe that Iraq was a gross mistake?

Just because we won't take anyone else's crap does not mean that we need to smother the globe in our own.
 
Redworm says;
We caused the "war on terror" with our foreign policy. We destroyed Iraq and cost fifty thousand Iraqis and three thousand of our people their lives.
Click to expand...

Yeah right, I guess you even think we caused Bin Laden to hit the Trade Centers. We caused Saddam to murder thousands of Iraqi`s. You are forgetting why we are at war, as did the millions of Bush haters.
 
Yeah right, I guess you even think we caused Bin Laden to hit the Trade Centers. We caused Saddam to murder thousands of Iraqi`s. You are forgetting why we are at war, as did the millions of Bush haters.
Click to expand...
No but America did have a very influential hand in creating the situation that gave bin laden both the resources and reasons for 9/11 as well as giving Saddam the resources and support to murder thousands of Iraqis.
What are those reasons? Liberation? Not ours to give. Dubya-emm-dees? Not found, didn't exist, Bush said so himself in at least one press conference. 9/11? No connection. None. Not one. None. Ever. Zero solid proof that Saddam knew about 9/11 before he turned on Fox News.


oh, speaking of murdering thousands of Iraqis.... www.iraqbodycount.org
 
I can bet on it that 40,000 of those Iraqi`s were killed by the insurgents, not by US forces.
Click to expand...
Perhaps. The number could be greater or that number could be half of the total. Unfortunately it's practically impossible to discern the two but those insurgents are killing civilians and Iraqi police and our own troops not because they have nothing better to do.

They were not insurgents until we showed up and gave them something to revolt against. Now I'm not going to buy that ridiculous report of a few hundred thousand deaths due to the war but every death directly caused by this conflict is as much America's fault as the insurgent or soldier or Marine that pulled the trigger.
 
It does sound like it may be time for US forces to start reducing troops and eventually pulling out and turn over power to their military. It may also be a mistake to pull out now, I don`t know. I don`t know the whole situation over there. But, all I say is, if we get attacked again, then go back and kick their butts again. Come back home again.
 
I don`t know the whole situation over there. But, all I say is, if we get attacked again, then go back and kick their butts again. Come back home again.
Click to expand...
Kick whose butts? The people our troops are fighting today, at this very minute, were not responsible for any attacks on our soil.
 
So much for any discourse on Bolton... Y'all seem to be talking Iraq!

Shame too, as I was formulating a reply to you, Redworm. Ah well, won't be the first time I've scrapped an answer...

Tell ya what. I'll log back in, in the morning. If the thread is still off topic, it gets closed (and that's assuming another mod doesn't wander by and close it before hand)! :mad:
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top