Jesse Ventura and guns...

Having worked with the Seals for a good many years I can say that being a Seal makes you an expert at killing people in numerous ways Having known them from the rank of Captain down I will say that While they were the best warriors in the world not one I ever knew was Presidential material! Having said that I will say that Clinton has proven that the office could remain vacant and the country would be better off than another Clinton. I just think that a Jr. College drop out is a little shy on the gray matter it would take to run the country.
 
Gale,
I can't argue with that! It was just a little "maybe" thought (a hope??). ;)

I DO like your comment about the Presidency being better empty than filled with something Clintonesque! :D :D
 
My Irish grandmother used to say "No one is useless. Even the worst of us can serve as a horrible example." I always thought she was talking about me.
Jessie Ventura is a good example AND a bad example.If he serves no other purpose he has illustrated that a Maverick can win in Minnesota. I seriously doubt that he could win at the national level, but he has caused a lot of people to be introspective about their political standards.I'm not at all convinced that he is a man of the people. I think he has run as a centrist and thus appealed to a lot of people.
But then what do I know about politics?

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Better days to be,

Ed
 
Gale-
The nice thing about someone like Jesse is the hope that he will know what he doesn't know. We don't need the President to watch over the nation's finances...that's not his job and makes not a bit of difference, except to the extent of his proposed taxation.

What we need is a President who understands that the nation's welfare, in every minute deatil, is not his responsibility. That speaks for a man that doesn't take himself too seriously. We could do far better than Jesse as Pres and the current CongressCritters as legislators......but it would be one hell of a good start!!
Rich
 
Right on DC. Ventura was on tonight, also on some show 10-09-99 defending "assault type" guns again, it shows something. He said he does not want the office anyway, so it is only academic, but I think he would not be selling out to china, and weakening the military at the same time, possibly a lot riskier move in the end game in comparison to what ventura would screw up. He might not be a rhodes scholar, but what good has all that grey matter gotten us thus far, a fast track to socialism?

Yes, Who Will Watch The Watchers?

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The beauty of the second Amendment is that it is not needed until they try to take it. T JEFFERSON
 
Beg, borrow or buy a Playboy magazine, and read Jesse's interview. In total. It is one of the best interviews I've ever read. If your heart has ever yearned for a leader who can tell it like it is, you've got to like this man.

You may not agree with everything he says, but man ... he says it so well. READ this interview - don't just listen to the bozo's who give you quotes and snippets out of context.

Very neat guy, IMHO.

[This message has been edited by Jeff Thomas (edited October 09, 1999).]
 
Hello All,

I have read down the entire post, and I can't find anything to be a good devil's advocate for. But I want to put one more thing out there for you to throw around, and it goes back to the continuing idea of the "weather vane" politicians that just follow the direction of the current political wind. I am sorry to say this, but the reason those kind of politicians are being so successful is because of the very limited amount of reasearch and time and intellect that the average american puts into the consideration of the vote. Any Joe Schmuck that plans to cast his vote based on who has the best and meanest t.v. commercials has the same voting power as YOU!!!!! Ridiculous.
I know that in the past voter's tests were used in the South to unfairly exclude black americans from voting because they did not have the same accessability to education as white americans, and it kept them out of the process. But now anyone who really applies themsevles, regardless of how hard their personal circumstances of living are, can become a success in America. But the equality of color or gender or age and the equality of intellect cannot be measured by the same social yardstick. Now that the equality of man is established, we should get to the business of diversity of mind. Should some form of test be given to potential voters before an election to test their KNOWLEDGE OF THE CURRENT ISSUES, so that those that vote are only those that are really knowledgeable about what is on the agenda? Just a question. I'm really curious to hear all the different sides on this one. Before you answer, just do one favor for me. Watch ANY episode of Jerry Springer, and tell yourself over and over, that in this country, all the people you are watching have the same voting power as you have, including votes about gun issues.

P.S. If it would infringe on the Con. too much, what is to be done about the weather vanes?
 
I have mixed feelings about Jesse. It was good that a third party man was elected to a high position. I respect his openness,if it is honest. I ,of coarse, like his stand on second amendment,but am troubled about his remarks on religion. But perhaps he has been misunderstood on this subject. I dont know. But, in my opinion, the big issue is for the Reform Party to have a good proAmerican platform that stresses bringing our industries back home , putting the Federal government back where it belongs, and restoring our national sovereignty. This is a big order and i dont know if the reform party will live up to its name. we need new political parties with pro nationalist platforms that will save the sinking American taxpayers.
 
Howitzer,

I think your suggestion about "voter tests" would be unconstitutional and unproductive.

The solution lies in term limits. Remove the professional politicians who have sold out to those who finance their continous campaigns and allow regular citizens with conviction to once again dominate the political scene.
This is what the founding fathers had in mind when they set up this rickety democracy, lets get back to that.



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Keith
The Bears and Bear Maulings Page: members.xoom.com/keithrogan
 
Working for 3M I am in the midst of a bunch of Minnesotans, and needless to say I had a lot of fun with my cohorts regarding their new Governor. That is until I heard him speak at the National Press Club. He really impressed me as an honest person. He spoke his mind got some cheers from the crowd and also drew some criticism. He may not be the most polished speaker, but he does speak his mind and I love that. I seriously doubt that here would be any need to read between the lines of his speeches. '

In all honesty, look where all that grey matter has gotten this country. I would much rather have a person with limited grey matter that applied it for the benefit of the country rather than some Rhodes Scholar pissing away a few hundred years of hard work . As for our decline into socialism, I believe that facism is a better choice for the direction we are heading. Note all the public and private partnerships our current leadership keeps refering to. Fascism is easier. Government just controls and does not have to deal with the nitty gritty of actually owning anything.

Term limits are only a partial solution. Political service should be just that, Service and not a stepping stone to higher income. Personally I would limit their salaries to that of the average American professional and not allow them to take jobs with any of the firms/interests they have dealt with. No more reasons for funding high dollar projects if the "consultancy" does not follow.
 
Two of my favorite "get rid of incumbent" schemes are:
1. NOTA -- None of the above on EVERY ballot. If NOTA wins, there's a runoff with only new guys running (losers can't rerun). The good stay in power, the others see NOTA building up against them and change their ways or are voted out.
2. 401Ks instead of Federal pensions. Once these people are out of office, they're off the public's back. It's worth a seperate thread about the scandal of the current pension system. A side benefit is that since they now have to invest their pensions, they just MIGHT start voting in America's interest.
Ah well, "perchance to dream".

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If you can't fight City Hall, at least defecate on the steps.
 
OATKA -

I am a great fan of the NONE OF THE ABOVE option. One of my favorite Herblock cartoons was the one issued after the Russians started sending their Communist bosses off to retirement with None of the Above winning election after election. Herblock's cartoon had the stereo-typed Russian babushka checking NOTA on her ballot as she said: "Eat your heart out Americanski!"

With less than 50% voting total, less than 25% are electing presidents. If NOTA were on the ballot, we would have a real choice for once -- the abolition of the corrupt status quo -- and, in my view, TONS of folks that never voted before would stand in line to throw the bastards, every one of them, out.

I have spent some time thinking about how to get this kind of option put into law (petition movement), and how to make it practical (who holds power in the interim between the two elections? is a 39 30 31 vote with NOTA on top a win for NOTA or does it need to get 50%+1 ??).

But, you've identified the issue underlying Jesse's appeal. He is clearly none of the above, and America is clearly tired of the above. That was the source of Ross Perot's popularity in 92 and Colin Powell's in 96.

It is also, I think, the source of popularity currently for Bill Bradley (I know, it's heresy here to say anything good about someone who supports gun registration) and John McCain.

Both of these guys had a life before politics, both have bucked their party on critical issues, and both seem to want office not as a result of a lust for power but out of a genuine sense of duty.

It is probably good for the Reform Party that Jesse gets an opportunity to get his feet wet in Minnesota before running for something bigger. Much as I like this guy at a gut level, it takes a little bit of a reach seeing him in the oval office, but I will be the first to conceded we have done worse, a whole lot worse.

It may be a tangent, but I don't think Jesse, even on his headiest day, would claim to be able to occupy the position Jefferson did/does in our heritage. Jefferson's most famous line was "I have sworn eternal hostility to any kind of tyranny over the minds of man."

Jefferson did not give us the Alien and Sedition Act, it was enacted in 1798 when Adams was President and expired by its own terms in 1801. Jefferson did not take office until March 1801; he refused to prosecute any outstanding cases, pardoned those previously convicted and got as many as he could refunds of their fines. Sounds like the kind of guy Jesse would have liked!

[Following is an excerpt from New York Times v. Sullivan, 376 U.S. 254, *275, 84 S.Ct. 710, **723-376 U.S. 254, *276, 84 S.Ct. 710, **724 (1964)]

Although the Sedition Act was never tested in this Court, [The Act expired by its terms in 1801] the attack upon its validity has carried the day in the court of history. Fines levied in its prosecution were repaid by Act of Congress on the ground that it was unconstitutional. See, e.g., Act of July 4, 1840, c. 45, 6 **724 Stat. 802, accompanied by H.R.Rep.No. 86, 26th Cong., 1st Sess. (1840). Calhoun, reporting to the Senate on February 4, 1836, assumed that its invalidity was a matter 'which no one now doubts.' Report with Senate bill No. 122, 24th Cong., 1st Sess., p. 3. Jefferson, as President, pardoned those who had been convicted and sentenced under the Act and remitted their fines, stating: 'I discharged every person under punishment or prosecution under the sedition law, because I considered, and now consider, that law to be a nullity, as absolute and as palpable as if Congress had ordered us to fall down and worship a golden image.' Letter to Mrs. Adams, July 22, 1804, 4 Jefferson's Works (Washington ed.), pp. 555, 556. The invalidity of the Act has also been assumed by Justices of this Court. See Holmes, J., dissenting and joined by Brandeis, J., in Abrams v. United States, 250 U.S. 616, 630, 40 S.Ct. 17, 63 L.Ed. 1173; Jackson, J., dissenting in Beauharnais v. Illinois, 343 U.S. 250, 288--289, 72 S.Ct. 725, 96 L.Ed. 919; Douglas, The Right of the People (1958), p. 47. See also Cooley, Constitutional Limitations (8th ed., Carrington, 1927), pp. 899--900; Chafee, Free Speech in the United States (1942), pp. 27--28. These views reflect a broad consensus that the Act, because of the restraint it imposed upon criticism of government and public officials, was inconsistent with the First Amendment.





[This message has been edited by abruzzi (edited October 17, 1999).]
 
>>>>>Jefferson did not give us the Alien and Sedition Act, it was enacted in 1798 when Adams was President and expired by its own terms in 1801. Jefferson did not take office until March 1801; he refused to prosecute any outstanding cases, pardoned those previously convicted and....<<<<<

Thank you Abruzzi! I was going to post a rebuttal myself but didn't want to look up the pertinent facts and dates.
Jefferson did a lot of politicking behind the scenes to make sure that act died.
Jeffersons presidency was possibly the pivotal moment in our history. The Federalists as represented by Adams and Hamilton, had put us on a course of almost unlimited Federal power. Anybody who complained was jailed under the A&S act (almost all the people jailed under that act were writers and editors). Jefferson killed all that and set us on a much safer course. We've veered back towards unbalanced Federal powers since then but without Jefferson, we'd be 50 or 75 years further along. It wasn't until Lincolns administration that the feds started usurping power again.



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Keith
The Bears and Bear Maulings Page: members.xoom.com/keithrogan
 
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