Jerks at the range...

D

Dave McC

Staff In Memoriam
Small minority, but I came close to inserting one guy's Ljutic into him like a suppository yesterday. Here's the tale...

I had gone down to PGC yesterday to shoot a few rounds. I ran into another older guy there on my range of choice, we were the only two there tho skeet was taking place next to us on one side,and a couple of guys shooting 27 yard handicap on the other.

The fellow with me was retired,like me, and had dug out his old pump gun to shoot a few rounds. It was the first Polychoke I'd seen in a while. He asked me if I'd mind waiting a minute while he had a cigarette. I OK'd it and he lit up. We talked, and I told him his Sears pump looked like a Winchester 1200, when the Jerk showed up.

He was about our age, late 40s to mid 50s, short,stocky and with a gut. His beard and hair was as salt and pepper'd as mine, and he walked with a really erect posture. The smoker asked him if he minded waiting a minute while he finished his smoke. The Jerk just gave a grunt like he was disgusted with something, leaned over and looked at out pump guns in the rack,and walked off. The smoker and I exchanged glances as he finished his ciggie,and we got up from the bench. The jerk was back with a fancy Ljutic, one of the high priced Bob Allen vests, and his air of impatient superiority. Just to be courteous, I asked the Jerk where he wanted to start. He ignored me and stood behind the line,waiting for us to pick spots. I shrugged and went to #2, the smoker was on 1 and the Jerk picked 4.

The smoker missed his first one, and even through my plugs I could hear the Jerk snort. He didn't snort when he missed tho, which seemed to happen as often for him as it did for us.He kept snorting every time we lost a bird. The round went, and Jerk walked off the line as we did. If I hadn't stopped short when he cut in front of me, I'd have bumped into him and his Ljutic. As he stopped nearby and grabbed another box of shells, the smoker asked me what load I was using. I told him I had just switched to a 1 oz load for economy,when the Jerk interrupted. The Jerk said something about people that couldn't afford good ammo and guns shouldn't bother shooting, and I lost it...

All during this encounter, my knuckles had been itching, a common psychosomatic disorder among Correctional Officers when annoyed or frustrated. And, 20 years plus of working Maximum and Medium Security prisons have left me rather more direct than diplomatic.

And while I know that conversations that start out with, "Listen up,S___head", rarely have positive results, I started out with that anyway. I told him he should have spent his money on etiquette lessons instead of shotguns, his manners were horrible, his shooting was no better than ours and just what he could kiss.Reverting to type, I spoke in the flat and even tone I use on convicted felons.

The light dawned for the Jerk. All of a sudden he realized that someone who wouldn't tolerate his bad manners was nearby, was much larger,didn't seem to care the Jerk was holding a shotgun and was quite obviously PO'd. Without a further word, he left. I watched him all the way to his truck(New,big,red,shiny full sized Dodge) and as he pulled out of the lot.

The smoker had shown good sense, he had moved away a little in case I drew fire. He now lit up another, and I sighed and said that I shouldn't have done that. He nodded, and said that it was probably just what the Jerk needed, a little reality check. Maybe, said I, and we smiled,talked of other things and then shot again.

And the moral(s) to this shabby tale of woe?

First, good manners are not only nice to have, they may keep you out of confrontations.

Second,cussing out folks holding shotguns is not a great idea,even if one gets away with it once.

Finally, I stand in violation of one of my personal rules, McCracken's Axiom of Personal Deportment:

"When someone is being a jerk, it does NOT grant permission for myself or any other person to do likewise"...

Thanks....
 
Dave, you really brightened my day. My father is retired law enforcement, and I know all too well that "flat and even tone." It brings forth the same reaction as a rattlesnake rattle to my experienced ears.

I'm sorry that you had to put up with the idiot at the trap range, but would have loved to witness his "education."

Thanks for the post!

Bud
 
Dave, I'm only sorry I missed seeing that in person.

Even if they guy with the Ljutic dusted every bird, his attitude and rudeness were unacceptable.

Like Bud said, thanks for the post.
 
Points well made (and well written, I may add.) Two similar situations of mine come to mind. First, the guy at the 100 yard rifle range who bitches every time you request "Range on safe" to go downrange to change targets. And secondly, speaking of provoking someone holding a shotgun, the time I was peppered with shot when some clown flushed a pheasant about 75 yards behind me and shoots it directly in line with my group! Well, I start yelling and he yells back that he didn't see us, which just makes me even madder, so I hand my shotgun to a buddy, and take off chasing this clown. Fortunately, he was faster, because if I caught him, either one of two things would have happened: I would kicked the crap out of him, then he would shoot me; or he would have kicked the crap out of me (and then shot me, too.) Seriously, I was surprised at how anger overcomes reason.
 
Jerks

The guy sounds like some of the Trapshooters around my neck of the woods. I have had complaints when I shoot low gun, or when I break their "rhythm". One reason I do not like the game of Trap is that the jerks seem to gravitate to it. They know better than to act that way on the sporting clays course.

And I never ridicule old guys with worn pump guns, they usually outshoot me:)

Geoff Ross
 
Good story. Glad it had a happy ending. Sometimes things just need to be said.

Reminded me of a summer day decades ago when I was doing tree service work. A guy in a delivery van didn't like where I parked my dump truck and yelled something unprintable at me. I responded in kind without thinking and the next thing I saw was this really, really big guy running out of the step van straight at me. He got about half-way to me when he realized I was holding a running chainsaw with a 30" bar. I'm sorry I spoke without thinking, but I'm really sorry I never got to tell him what I thought of his opinion of my mother.

John
 
Thanks very much, guys, I needed to let that out. A coupla things....

First, maybe it bothered me because people,even convicted murderers,rapists and muggers, do not usually act like that with me. I'm 6' 2", 250 lbs, and take a size 52 coat and a size 8 hat. And I look just like what I am, a retired prison gorilla.Nose's bent a trifle left, and my knuckles are visibly battered. If I was an actor,I'd play lots of Mafiosi.

Next, while some of the trapshooters I know need to work on their people skills, most do possess basic manners and recognise the fact that others differ.

I wonder just what was bothering the Jerk, most folks who've lived long enough to get grey figure out that acting like a spoiled brat in a kindergarden sandbox is very non-productive.

Geoff, I've seen more arrogance from Sporting Clays types, but they're still a small minority. Maybe they're kinder/gentler once they leave Pa(G)...

Finally, as one who has seen more actual violence than 99% of my age group, I was less than 10 feet when I spoke my piece, and was prepared to be all over him like the IRS on Willy Nelson if he went for bad. Had my cover picked out too if it happened after he widened the distance between us.

Have a good'un...
 
All told...

Dave,

The part of me that cannot tolerate idiots (especially idiots with guns) applauds what you did.

The part of me that keeps me from flying off the handle agrees that what you did, while certainly warranted, might have been a bit over the edge.

However, think of it this way. You just may have provided the spark that convinced this idiot to straighten up and serve the rest of his sentence without incident. and you may have prevented a worse scene at some future date and another location.

Frosty
MOLON LABE
 
Reminds me of an event at the local outdoor range. A mid-thirties, expensively dressed pretty boy ( being rather handsome myself, I can spot them ) would loudly remark upon the various skill levels in evidence. Of course, all remarks were negative. Upon cease fire, he stood by his target and refused to move. It turns out that his friend was ten minutes behind and so this fellow held-up about seventy others in order to allow his friend to post his target. Many folks were yelling at him to no result. A range officer on the PA got on his case. This guy also pointed a loaded handgun directly at folks at the range. Next, he refused to stop firing when cease fire was called again. Again, the range officer was yellling at the top of his lungs on the PA to "cease fire". At this point, there were several folks about to put his lights out. A range officer came down and cut him a new one. His language was not of the more upscale sort that this fellow might be use to. He made it clear that if he messed up one more time that he would be ejected and never allowed to return to the range. The range officer was tough as nails. The fellow packed up and left. A proactive range officer prevented a really serious incident and really earned his pay that day. I was about to leave the area rather than get involved with this fellow, or be part of a serious fight. I always use my feet first. It just isn't worth the risk of injury, should things go bad. I've tracked down and beat a guy who robbed an old woman and have stood my ground, but never when I have a better option.
 
What!!! Arrogant Sporting Clays types, Never!

Harumph!

If I find out who they are I will be sure to let the air out of the tires on their golf cart at the next shoot:D

Arrogance maybe, Grumpiness never!


Geoff Ross
 
What the heck is a Ljutic? It might be my ignorant, Ithaca/Remington shotgun background but I've never heard of an American Made Gun with an "L" and "J" next to each other. Are you saying that guy was carrying one of them-thar socialist guns?
 
re: Ljitic guns

Badger,

Ljutic makes a series of incredibly ugly, and hideously overpriced shotguns. They all look like rejects from a Sci-Fi movie set, rejected because they look to unrealistic.

These monstrosities sell for prices that would buy you a good Rigby rifle or shotgun with good wood. If I showed up at the range with a Ljutic rifle or shotgun, I'd get laughed off the firing line.

They are BTW, American made.

Doc Hudson
 
Having worked at a large trap & skeet club through high school I can tell you that those types of guys are common, especially on the trap field. Having pulled trap & skeet for many years, I was known for having very quick reflexes. I actually had guy complain that I released the bird too quickly. Everyonce in a while I would get one of these guys on my field and I would love to screw with them. With my reflexes I could release the bird the instant they sadi "pull" or delay it slightly. Since I was releasing the bird within a reasonable time they really couldn't say anything but it sure f***ed with their minds. When they would give me a dirty look I would just smile back at them.

Badger,

adding to what Doc said. The Ljutic is a really strange SG. They bascially look like a long skinny pipe with a grip and a butt pad. When you see one, you know what it is.

Gary H,

I cannot believe that the Range master let that guy get away with that much. When I RM at our range, I am in charge and anything I do is backed up by our club without question because it is my ass out ther on the line. I can throw a guy off the range for any reason I see fit. If the person is showing unsafe gun handeling abilities they are gone. If they ignore my commands, they are gone, especially when I call a cease fire.
 
The Bozo Factor...

"It only takes one clown to #$%^&* it up for everyone"...

As to Ljutics, etc....

Highpriced trap guns come in two main categories. Type One would be the classic Ithaca, Parker, LC Smith, Single Barrel Trap guns with some high grade Model 12s and the occasional Euro gun. One guy I shoot with has all of the above, plus a Purdey SBT and a Churchill(Based on a Woodward action, he mentions offhandedly) O/U. Browning, Perazzi and Beretta Combos come in at the bottom to middle of the high priced stuff. BTW, that guy with the Churchill is a good guy and we sometimes derive much hilarity shooting next to each other, he with some superb example of gunmaking, me with Frankenstein, my $140 parts built 870. We often score the same, cause for more hilarity...


Type Two would include the Ljutic, Kolar, Seitz, et al. All seem to be built by engineers rather than artists. They are incredibly strong, incredibly durable, infinitely adjustable, and have all the esthetic appeal of a D-8 Caterpillar dozer. Maybe less.

I shot a Kolar, owned by an elderly gent and quite well balanced. The wood, to me, looked like it came from old Asian packing crates, tho the wood to metal fit was exemplary. IMO, a shotgun costing as much as a decent used P/U truck should have pretty wood.

Geoff, PGC has a Sporting course, oft used by folks who bring their own carts. One rolled by the other day, it had fans directed at the seating, a cooler and ammo tray, and a O/U in the rack with a fiberglass stock of an electric blue hue usually associated with California Street Rods and/or Peyote. IMO, wretched excess, but it's his/her money.

Gary, it's a hard call sometimes when to step in, or out. I think that if I had been range officer,Homie would have been 86'd sooner. right about the time he had a weapon, loaded or not, pointed unsafely. Back when I did a lot of instruction, usually had a CW on me, and ALWAYS a duty sidearm or my 1911.
 
Ljutic

Aww...C'mon! They aren't THAT ugly. Besides they do make guns with wood stocks. And they are made in the good 'ol USA. And by a family owned business.

But there are shooters who will buy guns like Ljutics just for the prestige. Most can't shoot very well and own them as a status symbol .

But then some shooters own them because they want the best gun they can afford because they love the game and enjoy shooting. Some people buy high end guns because they want the best and won't compromise.

You can usually tell the prestige types because their guns are heavily engraved and have chintzy gold inlays of ducks and Pheasants and dogs all over them.

The guy with the cased basic model Perazzi that he treats like his child is probably a serious shooter. Probably bought the gun on time and takes care of it.


Geoff Ross
 
Geoff, we may disagree on the esthetics of a Ljutic, and I'll take your word on the family.

I bought the best gun I could afford, that 870 TB. I can run a case of shells a day through it and wear out before it does. Pretty wood, lustrous blue...

BTW, over on trapshooters,com, there's a link in a thread about what they believe to be the late Jim Henson's trap gun. A Remington Model 31, it has high relief gold inlays of Kermit,Miss Piggy, and other Muppets frolicking about.

Whatever floats yer boat(G)...

OJ, I'll bet you do. Be advised I'm enjoying the heck out of retirement...

Finally, my nomination for the ugliest high grade trap gun would be that Ljutic, with a Precision Fit Robo Stock. For those that haven't seen this latest example of good engineering and bad taste, think of a shock absorber from a small car attached to a receiver at one end and having synthetic plates at the contact points like Butt, grip and cheekpiece. Widely adjustable, of course, and a mere $1150.
 
May be I'm a lucky person, up to now I met only very kind and helpful people in the shooting sports. I thought it is a general behaviour within this group. But, it seems you can find holes everywhere, especially the ones with the A...as the first letter.

Good manners are outdated in our days, thats why only "salt and pepper" haired people complain.
 
Rob, in people of my generation, this was definitely the exception.And, I've met dozens of folks with better manners at that very trap,including the Geezer Squad.

Good manners and courtesy are the lubricants that reduce inter personal friction....
 
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