Jaguars? in America? YES
- Thread starter Dr.Rob
- Start date
Keith: I live in Cody, Wyoming, and I, along with most of the hunters here, greatly resent the number of wolves and grizzly bears we have to contend with. They are overunning the place.
The problem is that large, furry predators are idolized, promoted, and defended by clueless, urban people who have no real knowledge of these animals, and won't allow any natural consequences to occur. If predators eat up all the elk (or house pets), we are supposed to stand by and say nothing. If a griz decides he wants an elk we have shot and tagged, we are supposed to let him have it. If a bear kills a human inside the bear management area, there will be no consequences because it is "just being a bear."
Most of this stuff is spear-headed by the Sierra Club, but is also tacitly supported by the anti-hunting groups, since limitations on big game hunting in "bear areas" are beginning to be talked about. Just what PETA wanted all along.
The problem isn't so much the predators themselves, but all the political baggage they bring with them. You may not have such difficulties in Alaska, but around here it's a real mess.
CoyDog
The problem is that large, furry predators are idolized, promoted, and defended by clueless, urban people who have no real knowledge of these animals, and won't allow any natural consequences to occur. If predators eat up all the elk (or house pets), we are supposed to stand by and say nothing. If a griz decides he wants an elk we have shot and tagged, we are supposed to let him have it. If a bear kills a human inside the bear management area, there will be no consequences because it is "just being a bear."
Most of this stuff is spear-headed by the Sierra Club, but is also tacitly supported by the anti-hunting groups, since limitations on big game hunting in "bear areas" are beginning to be talked about. Just what PETA wanted all along.
The problem isn't so much the predators themselves, but all the political baggage they bring with them. You may not have such difficulties in Alaska, but around here it's a real mess.
CoyDog
Keith Rogan
New member
Jay,
If those pads were 6" and the hide was just over 6' - then that equation doesn't work on black bears. A grizzly with 6" pads would go about 7 feet.
Coydog,
I feel your pain re: the Animal Rights fruitcakes, BUT, biologically speaking, the number of game animals in a given habitat have more to do with the severity of the winters (and other factors), than with the number of predators.
And of course, yes, these groups will attempt to use reintroduction as a way to limit hunting, etc, but I think these things are easily defeated because you have little things like science (specifically biology), on your side while they do not.
Think about this - at some point these wolves and bears will become numerous enough to come off the "threatened" list and become just another game animal. When that happens, you'll be able to hunt them just as is done in Alaska or Canada. Yes, the Animal Rights people will whine and demonstrate but it will do them no good, just as it does them no good here.
In the meantime you'll see grizzly tracks and hear wolves singing at night and THAT is one of the things that makes hunting worth doing.
If those pads were 6" and the hide was just over 6' - then that equation doesn't work on black bears. A grizzly with 6" pads would go about 7 feet.
Coydog,
I feel your pain re: the Animal Rights fruitcakes, BUT, biologically speaking, the number of game animals in a given habitat have more to do with the severity of the winters (and other factors), than with the number of predators.
And of course, yes, these groups will attempt to use reintroduction as a way to limit hunting, etc, but I think these things are easily defeated because you have little things like science (specifically biology), on your side while they do not.
Think about this - at some point these wolves and bears will become numerous enough to come off the "threatened" list and become just another game animal. When that happens, you'll be able to hunt them just as is done in Alaska or Canada. Yes, the Animal Rights people will whine and demonstrate but it will do them no good, just as it does them no good here.
In the meantime you'll see grizzly tracks and hear wolves singing at night and THAT is one of the things that makes hunting worth doing.
Art Eatman
Staff in Memoriam
Keith, the problem is that in politics, science doesn't count near as much as sincerity and compassion. If facts were truly important, PETA wouldn't exist except as a bankrupt group of three or four soreheads, and we wouldn't have all manner of gun control laws...
I only have two or three hundred other examples...
, Art
I only have two or three hundred other examples...
, ArtKeith Rogan
New member
>>>>>the problem is that in politics, science doesn't count near as much as sincerity and compassion. <<<<<
Nearly ALL of the funds that run state fish and game departments come from hunters. That means that not only do we have all the biology on our side, we have the bureaucracy backing us up as well.
I can only point to Alaska as an example - despite howls of protest from animal rights groups, the hunting of wolves and grizzlies has never been seriously threatened in any way.
The bureacracy merely points to the numbers (and the revenues), and does what they must to sustain the wildlife - that means hunting.
Don't confuse what's happening now when wolves and grizzlies are indeed a "threatened" species in the lower 48 with what can happen in the next ten years when these animals become a "sustainable resource" - the PETAheads will no longer have any sort of point.
Money talks and bull**** walks.
Nearly ALL of the funds that run state fish and game departments come from hunters. That means that not only do we have all the biology on our side, we have the bureaucracy backing us up as well.
I can only point to Alaska as an example - despite howls of protest from animal rights groups, the hunting of wolves and grizzlies has never been seriously threatened in any way.
The bureacracy merely points to the numbers (and the revenues), and does what they must to sustain the wildlife - that means hunting.
Don't confuse what's happening now when wolves and grizzlies are indeed a "threatened" species in the lower 48 with what can happen in the next ten years when these animals become a "sustainable resource" - the PETAheads will no longer have any sort of point.
Money talks and bull**** walks.
Down here in Tucson you sure don't want to let your cat wander out and about. Small dogs too. Something will get them and add them to the food chain.
Yes, I recall the Jaguar siteing a few years back. A couple of weeks back some guy got attacked by a Black Bear in the Santa Rita Mts, south of Tucson. He's okay, G&F captured and killed the bear, to bad.
Clem
Yes, I recall the Jaguar siteing a few years back. A couple of weeks back some guy got attacked by a Black Bear in the Santa Rita Mts, south of Tucson. He's okay, G&F captured and killed the bear, to bad.
Clem
Montgomery County has a mountain lion population? 
How much have they spread into Southern MD (St. Mary's, Anne Arundal, Calvert, Etc)? My Boy Scout troop always went out to the woods without a care in the world or even an AR7 for backup and that was only like 2 years ago.
Kharn
How much have they spread into Southern MD (St. Mary's, Anne Arundal, Calvert, Etc)? My Boy Scout troop always went out to the woods without a care in the world or even an AR7 for backup and that was only like 2 years ago.Kharn
I know that here in CO the PETA-types have stuck items up for popular vote/ballot initiatives which does "manage" our wildlife. We got a ban on spring bear hunts (bad for the bear's children, you see), some (mumble) thing to do with predator control, etc. & ad :barf: Too, the DOW seems to becoming more & more so politicized by the money aspects. DOW heavily supports their Wildlife Viewing Project which is funded by the hunters dollars for non-hunters. Anybody see a conflict of interest there?
No argument with anyone's posts above - merely pointing out that we here haven't yet reached an equilibrium vis a vis the "Oh, I do so wish to pet a wild bear"-folks & others that, shall we say, have feet that actually touch the ground .... Too, you would not believe the shinanigans of the Save the Prarie Dog (rat) bliss-ninnies which abound in large numbers. Alas, no posted season to cull that herd as yet ....
If killer bees were only a bit more cuddly, we would have some idiot proposing protection of same ... takes all kinds (I guess).
No argument with anyone's posts above - merely pointing out that we here haven't yet reached an equilibrium vis a vis the "Oh, I do so wish to pet a wild bear"-folks & others that, shall we say, have feet that actually touch the ground .... Too, you would not believe the shinanigans of the Save the Prarie Dog (rat) bliss-ninnies which abound in large numbers. Alas, no posted season to cull that herd as yet ....
If killer bees were only a bit more cuddly, we would have some idiot proposing protection of same ... takes all kinds (I guess).