It's time to go back to a two-party system

Cactus,

“Paul, you quote a snippet from the Declaration of Independence but seem to
ignore that the Constitution gives us the means to change the way our
government is being run. It's to vote! And to vote for a realistic candidate, not
some pie in the sky dreamer that has zero chance of winning.”

You admit the Constitution gives us the means to change the way our
government is being run but then you throw away your vote on someone that
very same government has selected to represent them!

You accuse US of being unrealistic? The so-called “realistic candidates”
represent the very type of unconstitutional tyranny our vote is supposed to
prevent!

I may be some “pie in the sky dreamer” but I am voting for a Constitutional
government! Those voters who support the Democrats and Republicans
can not say that!

How can someone support the Second Amendment, the Bill of Rights, or the
Constitution by throwing his vote away and perpetuating the very government
which is trying to destroy them?

It is those who look in vain for change by doing the same thing over and
over who ignore the Constitutional “means to change the way our government is
being run”.

Vote for a change!

Stick it to ‘em! RKBA!

[This message has been edited by Dennis (edited October 25, 1999).]
 
The two party system can go to hell!

I have suffered nothing but a continual erosion of my gun rights despite my vote for a pro freedom party......republicans???????? I PUKE at the bull****! Just remember old George Bush who told the NRA to go to hell. Now it's payback time. Let's tell him and his son to GO TO HELL! You think they're for gun rights? Get a clue buddy! They're for themselves!

IT IS TIME FOR A THIRD PARTY. LET's SEND THE PRESENT TWO PARTY SYSTEM PACKING AND SHOW THE ESTABLISHMENT THAT PEOPLE DO HAVE POWER, THAT WE DO MEAN SOMETHING, THAT OUR VOICE REALLY DOES MEAN SOMETHING! FREEDOM!!!!

YOU HEAR THAT BOYS??? I say FREEDOM!!! Let me say it again....FREEDOM!!!


[This message has been edited by Frank Haertlein (edited October 25, 1999).]

[This message has been edited by Frank Haertlein (edited October 25, 1999).]
 
Dennis,

The "government" has not selected the people that we vote for. WE do! We select them in State primaries, we select them in State caucus'. This is not the former Soviet Union. If the government, or the "system", or the CFR, or the Trilat's, or any one other than the people select the President, how did Ronald Reagan win?

Gov. Bush is the GOP front runner because over 100,000 people have given an average of $400.00 to his campaign. You may not like his positions or feel he lacks leadership, but millions of people seem to disagree with you. Face it, people like the guy!

If Pat Buchanon were so popular, it would be he that had raised millions. I havn't yet seen some government "goon" squad keeping people from supporting him. And don't say that he can't get any press time. He has had more press exposure than any GOP candidate running. Most people vote for someone they like and trust. A great many people neither like or trust Pat Buchanon.

The fact is that no candidate can win without broad support. There are not enough gun rights people to elect someone. There are not enough tax reduction, or anti-abortion, or educational choice or any other single issue people to elect someone President. A candidate must appeal to the majority of people to win.

You speak of voting for only a Constitutional government and implore everyone else to as well. With the current state of our educational system, most people wouldn't recognize the Constitution if it bit them in the rear. Half the people can't even name their own Congressperson. If John Adams or Thomas Jefferson were running today, they couldn't get elected dog catcher.

The nation has been heading down this road since before I was born. How can anyone expect it to change back overnight?

I refuse to ignore history. A third party candidate has NEVER been elected President (no, Lincoln was not a third party candidate) and never will under our current form of government. The next President of the United States of America will be a Republican or a Democrat. We have the choice of voting for a person that will try to slow the direction we are headed, and hopefully allow us to reverse it in the future, or one who wants to speed it up. The choice is ours.
 
The "new" George Bush has all the money because he is an insider. He has a silver spoon stuck in his mouth because his father put it there. He has been crowned as ALL HOLY KING, handed the republican nomination without debate. Do you really think he is representative? Do you really think he his pro-freedom? Do you really think he won't sell us short like his father did when he rejected his NRA life membership?

THE BUCH'S ARE JUST MORE OF THE SAME!! You need to understand the NEED to vote against both the democrats AND the republicans if you hope to have a chanced in hell of shakeing up trhe current power brokers and securing your freedoms. They don't think they need gun owners to win. You are considered IRRELEVANT by them! Our best chance is to vote against all of the present people in power (just like in 1994) and take them all by surprise again. Why do you think they want to destroy Pat Bucannon by calling him a natzi?? It is just an attempt to destory him. That is all the more reason to vote for him! TELL THE CURRENT TWO PARTY SYSTEM TO TAKE A FLYING LEAP!!
 
Haertlein,

I respectfully but strongly disagree with you. Why do you think that the two major parties will have a sudden sense of remorse when you and, sadly enough, a handful of likely-minded idealists vote a third party?

My question to you is this: do you think there are enough "constitutional purists" out there, voting for a third party, to really make so much of a difference that the Democrats or Republicans will perform a conscience self-exam and revise their stances on individual freedom?
I personally don't.

I think the Nation is more tired of the continuous lying, spinning and BSing of the current Democratic party (unchecked by the media, of which the people are tired too); people are tired of the James Carvilles, the Susan McDougals, the Dick Gephardts, the Joe Lockharts and Company, to risk another term with those b**tards in power.

And I also disagree with your assessment of GW Bush. What has HE (not his father) done to disappoint you so much? I personally have an immense amount of respect for the guy, and I know that he would make an awesome president. And if you think that I just vote by inertia for a party just because of its color or slogan, believe me, it's not so.

If you want to protest, do so, but STAY WITHIN THE SYSTEM if you want for your protest to have any weight. Vote the moderate Republicans out of office, like many people seem inclined to do so now. But don't think that a handful of loose cannons voting for a small 3rd party are going to make any other difference than to get the worse people elected!

Can you explain to me your aversion for the Republican party as a whole? Did you despise Reagan? Do you despise people like Joe Barton? So why not just vote the ones you don't like out, while putting a man in the White Houes who has both the integrity and the ideals, not to mention the tangible chance, to be elected president?

Oh, and one last question. How would you feel if because of the split of the vote on the Right we got 8 more years with Gore, whose primary act will be to attack the 2nd amendment?

And if you think that Repubs and Dems are the same on the 2nd Amendment issue, let me tell you that it is SO not so!!!!!!!!!
 
Frank,

Gov. Bush has all the money because he has EARNED it. Who exactly has crowned him? Don't give me this "powers that be" or the "system", I want to know who. Has his father helped him? Of course, so what. He wouldn't be much of a father if he didn't. As for being handed the nomination, the primaries havn't even started yet. Gov. Bush has won nothing. He can still lose. Six months ago, AlGore was the choosen and annointed successor to Clinton. Look at him now! He is in a dog fight with Bill Bradley.

It is apparent that you have a bone to pick with his father. Take it up with him then instead of holding the son responsible for an action that his father did that upsets you. If someone has a problem with you, do you tell them to talk with your father? Of course not, I'm sure you are a better man than that.

Do I think that Gov. Bush is representative of the nations views? Yes I do, and that seems to reflect in his poll numbers. Do I think that he is pro-freedom? Yes I do! He may not share all of my views or positions but I don't worry that he would throw me in the gulag. I see nothing in his positions that could not be argued as to be Constitutional. You and I may not agree, but I know that I'm not a Constitutional scholar, are you?

You encourage people to vote against all the people in power like in 1994. Can you tell me how many third party candidates were elected to Congress that year? The fact is that Congress changed because people voted for the GOP! That argues against your position of voting for third parties and supports mine.

This is a two party nation. Our form of government dictates that, history has proven it and there is nothing all the Ross Perot's, Pat Buchanon's or Donald Trump's can do to change it.

"Those who choose to ignore history are doomed to repeat it".

[This message has been edited by Cactus (edited October 25, 1999).]
 
Cactus,

To become a *successful* Republican nominee for the Presidency one
must have the backing (at THAT time) of the Party.

- Like you, I believe some people become nominees against the wish of
the Party. They get no support. They lose.
- I honestly believe that some nominees are encouraged or permitted by
the Party only to give the appearance of a “fair fight”. Unfortunately, such
information (IF it is true) would be kept secret within the organization -
therefore my belief is a mere theory. But looking at some of the
Republican offerings would seem to support that theory! ;)
- I’m sure we agree that some nominees have greater Party support than
others.
- So my point is that the Party has a huge effect upon who successfully
becomes a nominee for a national office. That effect, in the long run,
means that the vast majority of nominees (and later “candidates”) who
become elected President reflect the thinking of the strongest power
brokers in the party.
-------

The two major parties have shared our government for so long they no
longer feel responsible to the people. The Parties feel the government is
theirs and we are to obey. We should no longer ignore the plethora of
unconstitutional laws and directives with which we must cope daily. These
unnecessary, illegal laws and directives create so much internal friction
that our country spends too much time dealing with the laws rather than
production of goods and services. It hurts us all!
- I believe the Second Amendment is the Keystone Amendment, therefore
any infringement upon that amendment is not only unconstitutional but
also an indicator of government intent to reduce us gradually to something
less than real American citizenship.

Bush is popular... but so was Clinton!
- Consider how Clinton has violated the Constitution, degraded the Office
of the Presidency, broken many laws, disregarded directives, legislated by
Executive Order, defamed innocent people, etc. etc.
- Therefore, I can not rely upon popularity as an indicator of Truth,
Justice, and the American Way. (wry grin!)

So I am trying to evaluate each nominee strictly on Constitutional
grounds.

If he’s for the Constitution - I’m for him.
If he’s NOT for the Constitution - Stick it to ‘em!

I have voted for gun control for the last time. I will not vote for gun
control simply because the Republicans’ version is merely less draconian
than the Democrats’ version.
-----
To say that I shouldn’t vote for a third party candidate because he is not
viable is to run our thoughts around in a circle.

I won’t vote for him because he can’t win because people won’t vote for
him because he can’t win because..... etc.

Nearly all of us agree that voting for a Democrat is to vote for a rush into
tyranny.
To vote for a Republican is to vote for a *slower* rush into tyranny. Bush
and his Party are even *proud* to propose gun controls in violation of the
Second Amendment! They proudly promise to violate our Constitution and
Bill of Rights. Therefore, a vote for Bush is a wasted vote - a vote that
could have been cast for Liberty but was cast for tyranny.
I will vote to stop this unconstitutional rush into tyranny. To be trite for a
moment, I will vote to “Stop the Madness”.

You correctly note the sad state of our educational system. It has been
wounded by the meddling of government and of the unions. But voting for
Bush surely won’t fix that. He sure hasn’t repaired the damage done in
Texas! They lowered the standardized tests (TASS) just so the kids could
get higher grades and the government could lie about making
improvements!

If most people wouldn’t recognize the Constitution, that’s a national
disgrace but hardly a reason to perpetuate our slide into unconstitutional
government.

So maybe I can’t change this mess overnight; but we’ve waited too long
already. Every election we’re hit with this “one more time” or “don’t let
the other guy win” and we continue to support a two party system where
the opposing sides are MUCH friendlier with each other and toward their
power base than they are to the American people or the Constitution.

Like you, I have chosen NOT to ignore history. We’ve let the Democrats
and the Republicans run this country darned near into the ground. We are
disintegrating as a society. It is time for a change. We should no longer
support the encroaching tyranny of which both the Democrats and
Republicans are so proud. It is time we support the Constitution.

The Democrats and Republicans have enacted too much gun control! If we continue to support them, they will enact MORE gun control.

"Those who choose to ignore history are doomed to repeat it."

If you want LESS gun control, it’s time for a change!

Stick it to ‘em! RKBA!
 
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