"It's the Police!"

[Stevie-Ray]

But, lets keep this to only one can o' worms at a time, OK?

Sorry, Cap'n, my bad.

Jeff seems to have handled the question with aplomb, though and I appreciate it.

As far as locking horns with the police goes; unless I'm positive it's not the police, through some means like previous knowledge of fake cops in the area, with vehicles like the ones parked outside, I'm answering the door quite amiably, or hitting the deck-their preference. I've got a handicapped wife to think about protecting. Who the hell's going to protect her if I needlessly throw my life away?

 

[TexasSeaRay]

I mean no disrespect by this, but how can you burst into someone's house (warrant or not) with a military-style assault and expect to *not* be shot at? Of course we are going to try to shoot you -- that's the game *you* started and we are just playing along.

First off, please try and be intelligent about this and what you are attempting to say. Otherwise, this is how conspiracist paranoia grows even more hysterical.

You cannot burst into someone's house, "military-style assault" (whatever THAT is . . .) without a warrant. If we--the police--are not already in pursuit because we have witnesed the actual commission of a felony AND believe you, the suspect, to be an immediate danger to the community, we can't just round up a bunch of guys, throw some vests on them, hand them black guns and go kick your door in for the helluva it.

I also don't believe this was ever implied or stated or directly sourced. So if you want answers or insight to a situation that occurs to one in every fifteen million citizens, may I respectfully suggest sticking to facts rather than conjecture?

The second part of your statement also tells me all I need to know.

Serving warrants is not a game. Raiding someone's private home, their residence, it is not a game. It is serious stuff. Trying to serve warrants on and arrest dangerous cartel enforcers or Aryan Brother hood thugs or MS13 assassins is about as much of a game as joining the Army and going to Iraq to play with IEDs.

I dunno. Maybe you prefer the robbers and rapists and killers to stay on the streets and in the neighborhoods. If so, get enough of you together and let your police know that since it's all just a "game," no need to play it anymore.

In post #12 you said a "dynamic entry" could even be used for something as minor as serving a warrant for unpaid parking tickets.

I said no such thing. Not even close.

This is a perfect example of how so much bullyou-know-what gets spread around via the iternet. Selective reading, selective comprehension.

What I SAID was that if you don't want a visit in the wee hours of the morning, pay your tickets or fines that you owe and then make sure any warrants that may have been issued are cleared.

If you don't want to get shot at, knock on the door like a civilized human being. (that's a good way to resolve a lot of the problems with raids on the wrong address, etc.)

According to someone who read the CATO report and calculated the odds/occurrences of police going to a wrong address, they came out to, what, one in fifteen million?

For the record, I do not believe in no-knock warrants in any shape, form or fashion. We were NOT allowed to utilize them in our (federal) agency--and nobody really wanted to.

As far as the "knock, announce and two seconds later kick the door in," anyone have any idea how many times I've heard the toilet start flushing the very second we would knock on the door and yell, "POLICE--SPECIAL AGENTS WITH A SEARCH WARRANT! OPEN UP!!!"

There were also people who swore not to be taken alive, and we believed them. They had a history of violence. Why would I want to politely knock, announce myself and then wait to be invited in when I have a legal, sworn warrant for their arrest?

Since when did hardened, dangerous criminals suddenly become passive, accomodating pussycats the minute you politely knock, identify yourself and with manners that would make even Emily Post blush, patiently explain to the murdering rapist that you are arresting him, trying him and going to try and put him in a very small prison cell for the rest of his life?

Why, hell. I never it knew it could be or should be that easy. Some of you guys need to start your own police agencies and bounty hunter outfits. You'd be zillionaires overnight you're so smart, insightful and obviously experienced at catching and apprehending bad guys.

Here's another something to chew over: For those of you who said you'd shoot back, yet also said you weren't cognizant enough in the wee hours after being woken up out of a sound sleep to know if they were real police or not so you'd just shoot anyway, by-gawd, you won't have time to even know what just happened before you got a bright light in your face and a gun aimed at you.

One thing I learned in the service and then later on in LE is that it is pretty damned difficult to to draw your weapon and get the drop on somebody who already has their weapon pointed and aimed at you.

Come on. Let's have a little common sense here as gun owners.

One in fifteen million is a little too much for me to start obsessing over how I'll shoot first and ask questions later as to whether or not the "invaders" were real cops or not.

Know what else? I was pretty decent at what I did in the service, and I was pretty good at what I did in LE, and I'm a pretty good shot who's been tested numerous times under fire. And you know what? *I* ain't gonna get into a shootout with a SWAT team who kicked in the wrong door and woke me up from a sound sleep in which I was dreaming about $5/5000 Winchester primers.

I'm gonna do what the damn cops say.

Of course, they could be fake cops. Ordered to my house by Elvis. Who is controlled by the CIA chip in his head.

Jeff

 

[Powderman]

Ah, what the heck.....

Because law enforcement has become militarized.

True, to an extent. But, have you stopped to ask WHY we started to assume the tactics and to a lesser extent, the dress of the military?

Here is some insight.

First question: You are an officer on regular patrol, within your assigned sector. You hear a priority broadcast; a bank has just been robbed. The perps are known to be armed with the following: 1. At least one AR15 rifle. 2. At least one HK91 rifle. 3. Various handguns. 4. A LOT of ammunition.

You hear that these criminals are engaging patrol cars and police officers ON SIGHT. They have also commandeered a DOT truck, and at least two of them are shooting from the back of the vehicle--an elevated, moderately protected shooting platform, VERY hard to stop.

You are armed with the standard load out--your service REVOLVER--a .357 Magnum handgun, loaded with .38 +P rounds. You have TWO complete reloads. You have an Ithaca M37 pump shotgun, with 00 buck and slugs.

You have NO body armor.

And, to put the icing on the cake, the last broadcast put the perps on the same road you are on, HEADING YOUR WAY.

Peachy, isn't it? Retreat is NOT an option. You have sworn the oath, and you are wearing the badge of a Police Officer. You WILL stand and fight, regardless of the odds.

Scary isn't it? Want to hear what happened?

Do a search for the Norco Bank Robbery, in California.

Second question:

You and another officer are in a two man car, and you receive a notification that a car of a certain description just committed a crime of violence. You see a car fitting that description just ahead. You turn on your lights, the car pulls over. You get out of the car in your clean, crisp uniform, carrying your duty weapon--again, the revolver loaded with .38 Special ammunition. Since you are mindful of the public image of your Department, you walk right up to the car, intending to investigate, and if necessary, arrest the individuals. What could go wrong?

Want to find out what went wrong?

Look up the Newhall Massacre.

We, as police officers HAD to change, because the CRIMINALS we go after changed.

Why do we wear all the high speed tactical gear, the hoods and masks?

Partially, it's to protect the face from flying particles and other moderately nasty stuff. And yes--the other reason is because it's to mask our identities.

You see, the criminals of today have NO compunction about finding out EVERY THING about you. And they'll come after you, OR your family.

Why the heavy duty body armor? Because plain clothing doesn't stop rifle bullets very well, thank you very much.

Why the heavy weaponry? Because it's common sense--you meet force with superior force.

And, why the no-knock, dynamic entries? Because the bad guys are a LOT less liable to shoot back if you catch them flat footed.

BDU's and jumpsuits are a LOT more comfortable to wear than the standard uniform. Don't get me wrong--I like looking sharp, too. Nothing looks better to me than the pressed uniform with accoutrements, shined shoes, clean leather gear and a nice Smokey hat with braid. Give me a good old solid wood nightstick, too.

But guess what? The first time you have to go hands on with someone--and go to the ground--or, like in my Department, you have to pull an unattended net full of stinking fish, that uniform ain't going to be so good looking afterward. If you mess up the BDU's--oh well! They're durable and cheap.

I honestly don't know why I even replied to this thread--it's going downhill, despite the best efforts of the mods to keep it civil. Oh, well; perhaps my post--and the other posts here--will make some folks think. If not--we'll still be here. Good day.

 

[pax]

I think that's a pretty good note to end this thread on.

A sincere "thank you" to everyone who kept it civil and productive.

pax