It's Our Own fault!

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My brush is only painting those who would force those beliefs on others, and as for that old book I'm referring to the bible, the koran and every other religious text out there. ;) None has "peace and love" as the sole or even primary message. It's all about controlling the lives of others, always has been and always will be.
 
Oh yeah...all that peace and love is SCARY

In 1122 Christian crusaders swept over Jerusalem and slaughtered men, women and children, 'until their horses were knee deep in blood. We then went to the church to thank the Lord for his mercy.'

In 777 , Charlemagne, a devout Christian, after conquering the Saxon rebels, gave them a choice between baptism and execution. When they refused to convert, he had 4500 of them beheaded in one morning.

In the fourth century, Emporor Constantine, the first Roman Emperor to become a Christian, had over 3000 Christians executed because their interpretation of the Bible did not agree with his. That is more than the number of Christians who died at the hands of the Romans during the well known 1st century "Christians to the lions" persecutions.

The above are from William Manchester's "A World Lit Only by Fire- The Medieval Mind and The Renaissance"..Little, Brown & Company, 1992

Queen Isabella, famous for sending Columbus to the New World in 1492, was well known also for her 'Spanish Inquisition', the gruesome torture and murder of tens of thousands of Spanish Jews, Muslims, homosexuals, people who read or wrote, uppity women, and anyone else not up to the Queen's strict standards. Isabella was a champion of the faith, piously congratulating herself as her victims writhed to their deaths in the flames and the many other ingenious methods of torture invented by her inquisitors.

In the 12th and 13th centuries, the Inquisition was born, with Christians killing Christians, during what was known as the Albigensian heresies. Hundreds of thousands of people died because their Christianity did not agree with official dogma. This adds to the irony of murder in the name of Christ, when the majority of victims of the early inquisitions were themselves Christians.

English Catholics suffered horribly under Protestant regimes. American historian William T. Walsh writes: "In Britain, 30,000 went to the stake for witchcraft; in Protestant Germany, the figure was 100,000" (, p. 275). In Scotland, too, alleged witches were cruelly put to death. Karl Keating quotes from the : "It is well-known that belief in the justice of punishing heresy with death was so common among the 16th-century Reformers-Luther, Zwingli, Calvin, and their adherents-that we may say their toleration began where their power ended" (C.E., s.v., "Inquisition," 8:35).

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One could do this with any religion. I do not mean any disrespect toward Christianity, but no religion is about "love and peace". It's about control of the masses.
 
Oh yeah...all that peace and love is SCARY

The world would be a much better place if we all ignored the call to love one another and not be judgemental

Once again you are confusing religion with the actions of some (supposedly) religous people

Possibly the result of thumping the Bible rather than reading it

This is true. But the problem is that far too many of both those running the mainstream religious movement and those trying to exert its influence over our government are of the thumping rather than reading variety. Unless you think, for instance, that the amendments specifically banning gay marriage in many states are stemming from love, peace, and a lack of being judgmental.

However, this is moving towards being more of a thread debating religion, which is generally OT for this forum. If we feel the need to discuss it further, I suggest somebody create a thread and I may participate during its short life. I'd do it, but I've reached my quota.
 
Exactly. It's not the religion I have a problem or even the people that choose to run their lives by it, simply those that demand MY life be run by their religion. And it all goes back to the original point of this thread, that with so many gun owners being religious zealots and the rest not doing anything to discourage that it only pushes away the potential converts and hurts our cause.
 
"None has "peace and love" as the sole or even primary message"

Once again read the book...don't just look at the pictures..concentrate on the part where it says nobody is any better than anyone else...we all fall short and it is pass fail...it helps some people be more tolerant

Fisherman...same advice...nowhere in the Bible is the plan for the Crusades

What man does...and why he claims to do it is not inspired by or caused by his religous beliefs.



My reason drives my actions....my belief helps me understand and forgive the actions of others


And I can love my neighbor and still not want it to be legal for him to ____________ (fill in the blank)

Why is it that you are always narrow minded when you don't agree with me:confused:


For those of you that feel a need to blame religion for the acts of man...this is my wish

I wish that the powers that be would be successful in their bid to remove religion entirely from government...we can end up with some "guidleines" based purely in reason (whose...I don't know)

And then, when the government does something bad...or even just something that you do not agree with you will find yourself floundering....because you will have no group to blame...other than the human race.

Saw this in another thread

"But, after all, it is the leaders of the country who determine the policy and it is always a simple matter to drag the people along, whether it is a democracy, or a fascist dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist dictatorship. Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the peacemakers for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in any country." - Hermann Goering at the Nuremberg Trials

Huh....didn't have to use Religion
 
And I can love my neighbor and still not want it to be legal for him to ____________ (fill in the blank)
And that's the problem, that because of your religion many others don't want it to be legal for me to marry another man and recieve the same benefits and protections offered to every heterosexual couple out there. That because of that religion some don't want it to be legal to conduct medical research on embryonic stem cells, research that harms no living person and will save millions of lives.

That's the problem. That's why it's "our" fault, because the left would rather have a government run by socialist atheists who allow for scientific advancement and at least attempt to give equal opportunity and equal protection to everyone in the country rather than have a government run by religious zealots who demand that everyone be straight, go to church, abstain from sex before marriage, ban dirty words on TV and tell them what they can and cannot do with their own bodies.

They recognize that fighting for gun rights is not the same as fighting for freedom.
 
For those of you that feel a need to blame religion for the acts of man...this is my wish

I wish that the powers that be would be successful in their bid to remove religion entirely from government...we can end up with some "guidleines" based purely in reason (whose...I don't know)

And then, when the government does something bad...or even just something that you do not agree with you will find yourself floundering

Where's the love and peace, brother?
 
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