It's only going to get worse.

Status
Not open for further replies.
Let's face it, though. Spree killing is almost exclusively a white man's stunt. In America, when Whitey snaps, it's spectacular.
Click to expand...


Whoa now... when did this become a racial discussion?

For that matter, we had 1994's Colin Ferguson slaughtering passengers on the 5:33 LIRR train with his Ruger and his Black Talons.

Then we had Boyd & Malvo sniping civilians from the highways, right?

As I recall, they were black. In fact, Ferguson's "defense" was "Black Rage"!

The guy who shot the two professors at Appalachian Law School -- black.

It was Ferguson's "spectacular" snap that got Black Talons taken off the shelves, and got us Carolyn McCarthy in Congress.

So much for your theory that the spree killings are all "Whitey's" fault. I take umbrage at such a historically ignorant and BIGOTED statement. See above for its facile refutation.
 
If each state wants to take care of those facing mental issues on their dime I'm okay with that.

I'm not okay with violating the Constitution when the federal government is given the responsibility.

Now, if each and every American who wanted to bear arms were permitted to do so without the states violating the 2A (any and all types of state permits are a violation of the 2nd Amendment) and if the federal government itself would acknowledge the 2A then those who would go on these rampages would be quickly dispatched to the next life with a reduced rate of death inflicted upon innocents.

Bad things happen. That's life. Worse things happen when good people are hamstrung into submission.
 
Why the US has so much specacular violence compared to other countries is an interesting one. One that will always be answered with a certain level of bias because it can only be answered with a philosophical approach. Unless of course you need simple answers to complex issues, like guns are the problem.

We've always had guns. You could buy them from a well equiped hardware store until recently. You could order them out of a Sears catalog. No federal background checks, no permission required.

My view is that we were, and still are to a large degree, a religious country, held together with a strong sense of right and wrong. We valued freedom, self reliance and independence. Americans don't like to see the little guy picked on or abused and are often all to willing to put our ass on the line in their defense. Even if we get criticized for it.

I do believe as our society slips further and further into secular moral relativism without a common basis for morality our independence and freedom to own arms is clashing with disaqsterous results. To continue along the european path we will eventually reduce or remove that right. I think that's why so many blame liberalism and I'm in their camp.
 
The REASON our healthcare is so bad is because Americans cannot AFFORD private health care.

The REASON we cannot afford healthcare is because our TAXES are too %^@#%@#$%#$%, @#%#@$%#$%#ing, #$%#@#%#ing HIGH!!!!!!!!

The REASON our taxes are so high is because the fedgov is absolutely out of control in many many areas of waste, fraud, and abuse. Not to mention spending billons per month on nation building (mil-indust complex) that won't ever work.

If the fedgov would get back to how the founders envisioned it, as a very limited government of enumerated powers, with the states retaining the vast majority of the power (180 degrees from the current situation), then we would have enough in our pockets left over after housing, food, clothing, transportation, and other stuff to AFFORD healthcare. So it is unwise federal fiscal policy that creates and exacerbates the healthcare crisis. Such policies used to be mostly the purview of liberals. Now they are the policies of both major parties.

Back on topic. Whackos, as a percentage of the population (per capita) have not changed, I don't believe. They will always be here, and yes, genetically, we ARE a bit crazier than other peoples because we took in those willing to emigrate, and by and large they were a more independent, robust, assertive lot.
 
Anybody interested in this subject should look up "Care in the Community" in Britain.

this is where paranoid schizophrenics are released on the basis that they can be trusted to take their own medicine and be looked after by "the greater community"

In reality what happens is that these people don't re-integrate into the community, after all they're what used to be called "mad", don't take their tablets, look for help, get turned down because the social workers are on holiday and then they kill somebody. Usually with a knife because gun control has made everybody so safe.

But the health care managers have made their required savings so everybody is happy. The legal settlement is usually less than the annual cost of running a proper health service, so everybody is happy, apart from the dead person and the "mad" person on a murder charge.

Ah well, at least it's not socialism.


I will post links as I find them, trust me, it's not drive by posting.
 
It will say that a significant proportion of these deaths could have been avoided, had it not been for health service failures or legal loopholes.
Click to expand...

The blame game, it's always someone's fault.

If the health care in the U.S.A. is so poor, why do people come here from other higher rated countries for medical care?
Living in the Buffalo, NY area most of my life, many/many Canadian's would come to the WNY area and pay for our health care out of pocket rather then using the much tooted Canadian system of thier own.


kenny b
 
The Canadian system isn't all that great from my firsthand knowledge. But even if it were, the fact remains that my wife pays taxes to fund the thing, so it's not free as the ascertion goes. Vision and dental care were covered but because of cuts it's now 100% her responsibility. Prescriptions are also something she pays for as well.
 
The population formerly institutionalized with mental disorders included many who did not need to be set apart from society. New medications helped many to cope with life out in society. The states closed many facilities very soon after the departure of most of the patients and consolidated services for the few remaining.

However, there are definitely those who were released who are unable to adapt (even with medication), and have nowhere to turn. Some of those are also a danger to themselves and others. Only those who showed the ability to transition were to be released. That was how it was supposed to be.

But predictably, a lot of people were allowed out that were not destined to make the transition. Now, many of those people are in prison. Most prisons now have mental facilities within the prison. Is that cheaper? Is that better?

Others are dumped from hospital to hospital and basically are homeless. Is that cheaper? Is that better?

It's a vexing problem. There are group living apartment-style arrangements for some, but do you want them in your neighborhood? The government at all levels is still throwing money at the problem, plus the patients themselves are now on Soc Sec. disability and 99% will be until they die.

Ask a candidate and see if you can get an answer. It's not currently a "front burner issue", it likely never will be.
 
Wow, in less than two pages you guys have tied mental health to guns, racism, Bush-bashing, Canada and government contracting.

None of which ever came up between me and my shrink.

I don't mind a debate on which two sides discuss their various slants on a subject.

But an entire thread on gibberish has no sides.

Either start researching a topic before you shoot your mouth off or STFU. You have slandered numerous people with your half-baked ideas.
 
We live in a society which ceased to draw a distinction between good and evil. We now ascribe to mental illness some actions which formerly were considered evil and dealt with as such.

You are right. The problem will only get worse and there is no hope of reversing the trend until we reacquaint ourselves with the concept of good and evil.
 
Europe has its full share of nut cases, but they don't use handguns, they use knives or their cars when mauling people in big numbers before getting caught. If the right to carry concealed and openly is reinforced in America, who cares about nut cases? Kill them on the scene before they do too much damage. No worries.

Of course, the liberals have solutions about mentally ill people that will only serve to increase the impact from their tendency to violence. More innocent people will become hurt with the let-go attitude of the Democrats.
 
Wow, in less than two pages you guys have tied mental health to guns, racism, Bush-bashing, Canada and government contracting.
Click to expand...

Excuse me, 95% of the people here consider the topic health/ medical related. Many have given opinions on our countries health care as the problem to the original question.
If I had come out and bashed our country on medical would my post have been acceptible to you standards.

kenny b
 
Last edited:
I'm kind of surprised by the lack of response to LightningJoe's comments. Crazies come in all shapes, sizes and colors and I don't think it's appropriate to talk about "whitey snapping" as the source of all the loonies in the country. Maybe it's just me...
 
The de-institutionalization of those with mental illness, starting in the 1970's was primarily motivated by concerns over the inhumane conditions existing within large state run institutions. This was not primarily a funding issue, although it is true that at the time it was recognized that the states would not allocate the funding that was necessary to significantly improve the care of those in the institutions. It was also widely believed by mental health professionals of the time that many individuals abnormal behaviors were as much a symptom of the institutionalization as the mental illness itself. Those leading the movement to "free" the mental hospital inmates knew that many of those being released were not capable of living independently, but assumed that local communities would, of course, create community based programs to meet the needs of these people. This did not happen, as we now know, and the current situation was created. Homelessness was a much smaller issue in those days, with the terms "hobo" and "bum" routinely used to describe those who chose to live outside of the normal societal expectations. Since the late '70's, a sizable part of the homeless are those with serious mental illnesses, and there is still no agreed upon solution that money-strapped local governments will follow to resolve the issue.
 
Maybe the results are from our country's constant redefining of the word normal and the movement of the bar on societal expectations.

kenny b
 
Last edited:
"Maybe the results are from our country constant redefining of the word normal and the movement of the bar on societal expectations."

That's a good point too. When you start seeing even middle aged women and men with bright green mohawks, piercings all over, tatoos on the neck and face or otherwise dressed like circus clowns as being not really unusual, somebody's moved the goal posts.:eek:
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top