It's only a handgun !

I think that the cartridges will continue the trend of being logistically economic and still get the job done. Will that be the parabellem cartridge? Who knows. A bigger caliber with lower mag capacity will probably not make the cut either.
I can see why many don't like the m9. Some hate it and it's hard to hold and shoot; some love it and can shoot it well. There would need to be a happy medium to which all can use it proficiently
 
Pardon me for bringing this up again in the same thread but I'm still hung up on this part of the article:

the same company that wins the handgun contract will be expected to produce the ammunition as well.
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:confused:

In the same article it kind of harps on this and says:

It's going to be a big company, not a small one, that wins the $1.2 billion MHS contract. And the most likely winners are the industry pairing of Smith & Wesson (guns) with General Dynamics (guns and ammo).
Click to expand...

Right now I don't think that Beretta produces the ammunition. I can't see where it would be very smart to bundle the ammunition and the firearm itself into the same contract. I kind of think this part of the article is incorrect or misleading.
 
interesting

I find it interesting that some/many LE agencies that jumped on the DA/SA bandwagon 15-20 years ago, have abandoned those designs (read SIG and Berretta) for the poly pistol (read Glock and Smith & Wesson).


I'd think the G17 would be the toughest, most durable, affordable and simplistic in operation/manual of arms handgun going, and the top choice for the military.
 
Wait, what?

Wasn't the whole point of going to the M9 in the first place, to streamline ammunition supply between NATO countries with the 9mm?

So now we are planning to go back to .45ACP, and leaving the rest of NATO at 9mm?

And the FBI just went back to 9mm?

And people wonder why I drink...
 
When the Army figures out that the .45 is too big for some women to shoot, and capacity too small for military needs, they will scrap it...again.

When it comes to sidearms, the military would be a lot better off simply paying each person a lump sum and tell them to go out and buy the gun they want from an approved list (they can even specify the caliber if they want). Make it their gun, their responsibility to maintain it and care for it and when their service is over, they get to keep the sidearm. That way the government won't be stuck with a bunch of crappy old guns that shouldn't be in service, and veterans get a nice keepsake from their service. This would cost the military about $250/person.

I'm sure that Glock would be glad to supply all the G17's at $250 that the military personnel would buy. And, if they want a Sig, HK or something fancier, then they can pay for it out of their personal funds. All of today's modern guns are far more durable and reliable than the 1911's of yesteryear, so there's really not much to worry about there.
 
$750 to $1,250 per unit. And Sen. McCain warns that as much as $50 of this cost is from requiring manufacturers to dot every i and cross every t in the overly detailed 350-page RFP.
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So from 280 to 500k guns at $50 a piece to fill out a single form. The math works out to 14 million to 25 million to fill out a 350 page form. I'd be happy to do that for half that much./sarcasm
 
Another opportunity to rectify the mistakes of the past and adopt the .45 caliber Luger pistol. It's never too late.
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And you can be sure that .45 Luger would be 100% reliable in the desert sands of Iraq, Afghanistan and Syria.:D:D:D
 
CDNN had a closeout a few years ago on Browning Hi-Power DAs, known as the "HP-DA."

From what little I have been able to find out about it, it was apparently intended as a hopeful for Beretta replacement.

As far as I know, the only military that adopted it was Finland.

I bought one (coz they were cheap!) and it seems to have features that put it light years ahead of the Beretta.

(1) It's smaller that the Beretta, about the same size as a classic Hi-Power, but with 15+1 capacity.
(2) It's all steel.
(3) The ergonomics of the one piece wraparound grip are much nicer and smaller than the Beretta.
(4) It is (obviously) DA and SA with a frame mounted hammer drop in place of a manual safety.

Maybe someone out there can shed some light as to why it was rejected.:confused:
 
Does anyone think that if the Army bought a slew of stock Glock 17s that it would influence any future war?

Headline in 2027.

USA conquered as last defenders says the Glock Grip and ergonomics left us unable to drive the enemy from the beaches of Virginia.

Just a boondoogle and typical government.
 
That's pretty much why I say leave good enough alone.
Also in the War of the 2020's there will be widespread complaints about the M4A9 with its modular wish-list display screen and hand warmers aren't warm enough. The M4A9 had removed the 50BMG Short option from the menu choices and it is not expected to return in the M4A10.
On a side note, many soldiers have completed their punishment for going "cowboy" and carrying their granddaddy's berettas. The army found that the training process for the M9's to be way too difficult and theses soldiers hadn't been trained by DHS to use them. The Amy has found that the M9's replacement, the M2018 would suffice as long as it had a smartphone app to be used along with the gun.
 
Kosh75287 said:
LOL @ Kilomanjaro. Well, perhaps not combat viable, given the Luger's reputation for being persnickety about ammo, but imagine the ballistics one might obtain from a .45 ACP loaded to higher pressures! Certainly, the Luger's mechanism can withstand beatings that many swinging link/tilt-barrel actions just won't handle. It might make a 100-yard capable defensive automatic sidearm more than fanciful thought.
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Huh?

Swinging/tilt barrel mechanism means 1911, and it's doubtful there's any round that might conceivably be used by the military that a decent 1911 can't (and hasn't) handle. .45 Auto +P? No problem. 10mm? Piece of cake. .454 Casull? Yep, already done. Yes, even .357 Magnum (sort of -- the Coonan barrel tilts down, but doesn't use a link).

Maybe you're not aware that the link in a 1911 isn't under any particular stress unless the pistol is pretty badly out of spec.
 
How would the gun world be different if we had chosen the Luger in 45 ACP?

Gunsite would be a barren piece of desert. Many manufacturers would be making lawn chairs.
 
Lugar - must be made with the best materials and highest precision.
Long mag to chamber travel requires longer bullets for good functioning
ACTION is OUTSIDE the gun exposed to dirt, grit, water etc

Training ? Sadly our education system has failed .During VN they made instruction books like comic books because so many could NOT read ! :mad:
 
Just another dysfunctional day at the government :o

My opinion is that -

1. There is no real reason to replace the Beretta 92 - upgrade maybe.
2. The government needs to stop changing its solicitation or bid process. Once written its done - quit changing requirements mid stream.
3. Stop the procurement process which clearly focuses on one or two specific pistols. And no favorites whatsoever - with the exception of bonus points for being a US company and manufacture must take place in the USA.
4. No matter how much complaining we do nothing will change.
5. Glock CAN produce the guns and sell them at profit for under $400 each and that includes Night Sights and three magazines. If you doubt that give me enough money to order 400K-700K guns and see what kind of price breaks I get :D .
(I suspect S&W and others could do the same)

Happy Holidays,

Rob
 
It appears the .45 caliber Luger is getting some support !

Consider the possibilities, snail drum magazines, long barrels, shoulder stocks, selector switch, we could be looking at the next 21st Century carbine.

Of course, the Thompson SMG would be a better choice for a .45 carbine, and I'm sure the Army would opt for the tried-and-true Tommy gun instead.

That would leave us with the need for a choice of pistol, right back where we started. So, given the Luger's finicky nature in desert environments, as some have pointed out, perhaps the Mauser Broomhandle in .45 ACP would be a better selection, especially with it's self-contained shoulder stock in the tactical thigh holster. An excellent choice for room clearing or special forces, and a properly-sized grip for the newly enlisted female combat troop.
 
Futuring at it's best. Of course, the. 45 would be necessary for stopping arm-tearing Chewbacca Wookies, same as in with Philippine Moros. The more things change, the more they stay the same.

The Broomhandle grip could be considered a chauvinist micro-agression, however, so a redesign is in order before issuing to non-male troops. I'm sure the Army could manage to accomplish that for a million or two.
 
I saw that video and became insanely jealous and wished I had the cash to have one made for myself... Has he posted the Sterling/E-11 Stormtrooper one yet?
 
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