It's not just "insurgency"

springmom

New member
http://www.aina.org/news/20061012004656.htm

Mosul, Iraq (AINA) -- On Monday, October 9, a prominent Assyrian (also known as Chaldean and Syriac) priest, Fr. Paulos Iskander (Paul Alexander), was kidnapped by an unknown Islamic group. His ransom was posted at either $250,000 or $350,000. This group had demanded that signs be posted once again on his church apologizing for the Pope's remarks as a condition for negotiations to begin.

Father Alexander was beheaded on Wednesday.

An email from a priest in Sweden, Adris Hanna, describes the Muslim terror campaign against the Christians in Iraq:

The Syriac-Orhtodox priest Paulos Iskandar was kidnapped this Monday, October 9, and beheaded today Wednesday October 11.

The Bishop in Mosul wrote me an email tonight and told me that the funeral will be held in Mosul tomorrow.

Christians are living a terrified life in Mosul and Baghdad. Several priests have been kidnapped, girls are being raped and murdered and a couple of days ago a fourteen year old boy was crucified in the Christian neighborhood Albasra.

I have also spoken to a group of nuns that were robbed and treated brutally on their way between Baghdad to Amman in Jordan.

The murder of father Paulus is the final blow for Christians, and now only hell is expected for the Christians of Iraq.

We the oriental Christians in Sweden and the rest of the Western world must protest against the genocide. We must do what we can to stop the rape, threats, hatred, robberies, murders… We must do something.

These latest murders continue an escalating pattern (1, 2, 3) of attacks against Iraq's Christians. On October fourth a bomb ripped through an Assyrian neighorhood, killing 9 (AINA 10-11-2006).

© 2006, Assyrian International News Agency. All Rights Reserved. Terms of Use.

May his memory be eternal. And may we not let this pass amidst all the politics regarding Iraq.

Springmom
 
Will someone explain to me why ANYBODY who isn't Muslim would live in Iraq or any other middle east area?:confused:

If these terrorists knew how to play it, they'd be singing "the Deguelo". They don't give quarter to nobody. A 14 year old crucified:mad: :mad: *! Makes me sick. I'd be out of there as fast as a 747 could get me. :mad:



*Mods, we REALLY need a burning with rage icon.
 
Within each one of us there is a inch of hope, of will, of integrity. We must never lose or give away that inch. For within it we are free.
V4V, I may be mistaken, but your attitude contradicts your sigline. Perhaps you should change one or the other?
 
LOL Al!!!!!!

You stay and work and fight for your homeland. That is their homeland. They're not the majority, not by a long shot, but it's their HOME.

Springmom
 
You have a point Al:o . I can't argue with logic. I'm not one of those people. At the very least I certainly hope they get better weapons than we do. Like RPG's & M60's. Do they?
 
I'm confused. Didn't the various religions co-exist in the Middle East for a loooong time. What changed?:rolleyes:

badbob
 
What changed
Israel became a country in 1948:)

Actually, "co-exist" and "co-exist peacefully" are two different states. Someone has been fighting someone else in the Middle East (and the rest of the world?) since time began, with little 'cease fires' here and there.
 
The Middle East...

Is the most unstable region because it's a cross roads of east and west. In all honesty, they should just duke it out and the world should just watch just how savage an animal humankind really is, more than willing to destroy each other over the slightest offense be it religion, ethnicity, or nationality. As much as we like to think we are beyond the beasts, we are the most dangerous, heedless, and self-destructive of any creature. We abuse our sentience, and think that by building walls and creating our cities we are civilized, behind the glitz and glamour, behind all the cement it's all still jungle.


Epyon
 
As much as we like to think we are beyond the beasts, we are the most dangerous, heedless, and self-destructive of any creature. We abuse our sentience, and think that by building walls and creating our cities we are civilized, behind the glitz and glamour, behind all the cement it's all still jungle.

LOL!!! The nastiest most vile and wretched creature to ever walk this earth is man. Everything animals do they do out of necessity. There is relatively little that we do in which we can claim necessity as a valid excuse.
 
The nastiest most vile and wretched creature to ever walk this earth is man. Everything animals do they do out of necessity. There is relatively little that we do in which we can claim necessity as a valid excuse.
That's quite an indictment of an entire species. What do you recommend ... we all commit suicide before the sun goes down? From your post it sounds like that might save the earth.

As much as we like to think we are beyond the beasts, we are the most dangerous, heedless, and self-destructive of any creature.

We are "the most dangerous, heedless, and self-destructive of any creature" on earth exactly because we are the most capable and intelligent creature on earth. Quite a paradox, eh?

"As much as we like to think we are beyond the beasts," takes a lot for granted and is not a logical conclusion from intelligence alone.

That said: Which other life forms on this planet wonder about their origins? Which other species' on this planet worry about the fate of other species? Notwithstanding the cruelty and greed of some humans, which other species can you show that exerts considerable time and effort to insure the continued existence of others of their same species and other species'?

I like my home too but I'm more attached to my head.

Humans engage in many activities that are not logical or not based on a logical outcome, but are based in tradition and are emotionally driven.

As for Israel, how far back do you go? The primary event in recent history the Arabs seem remember is the force used by Britain to establish the regime in Israel. Want to read about the quintessential terrorist? Look up Moshe Dayan ... Ole One Eye. If you keep going back far enough in human history, the rationale (justification) for occupation of the region called Palestine, or alternatively Israel, goes back and forth from one side to the other. It is a land where revenge is sacred and hatred is noble.

It is an intellectual quandary for many of us, but emotionally speaking it is an ever present temptation to say, "Let 'em at each other and may the best man win."

I had a coworker once that was an natural-born American of Palestinian immigrant parents. This fella was not a dark complected, swarthy type. You would never associate him with his mid-East origins by way of stereotyping his appearance. We talked a lot about Palestine. I learned a great deal which I had not even suspected prior to that. That's also about the time I read HAJ, by Leon Uris. His family had at one time a successful business in Lebanon. They lost everything in the early 50s and immigrated. "In the aftermath of the 1948 Arab-Israeli War, Lebanon became home to more than 110,000 Palestinian refugees after being expelled from the newly formed Israel and Jordan" (quote from Wikipedia).

Knowledge of history is an awful thing. Government propaganda is worse.
 
To Bud Helms...

No, I wasn't saying let's all commit suicide by sundown to save the planet. Yeah that was a fairly heavy statement I made, and yes there ARE good parts to humans as a species, I did also state that we're sentient beings, so yeah we're probably capable of thoughts and acts other animals aren't able to do. (At least not to our knowledge.)

Knowledge of history is an awful thing. Government propaganda is worse.


And the worst part about it is, many Americans that are pro-Israel are either just doing it out of religion, or are blinded by the propaganda and fail to see the Palestinians' reason for violence.

It is an intellectual quandary for many of us, but emotionally speaking it is an ever present temptation to say, "Let 'em at each other and may the best man win."

That is very true, and a lot of people think that letting one overtake the other is the "cure all" solution. Let Israel destroy the Palestinians and Lebanon, because "they are right no matter what" is the thinking in the west. Truth be told I'm more inclined to believe that both sides perpetuate the violence, not just Islamic militants launching the first attack. Of course propaganda over here will always tell us, Israel was only defending itself and Hamas, Hezbollah, etc. started it first. Go east of Israel and the newspapers write it completely differently with the finger pointing to Israel. Truth of the matter is there's so much violence, muddle, and confusion that making claims as to who's at fault is rather useless other than to have others follow you blindly. However I will agree with Bud Helms that this CURRENT problem was caused after WW2.


Epyon

P.S: For clarification can someone please give me a reason on how Israel is our ally? How do they support the United States? I know Saudi Arabia hates Israel, yet we do business with them as well. We give Israel weapons but what do they do for us? By the way every answer I've gotten so far on why Israel is America's ally has been based off religion, or the blanket statement of "because they're the only democracy in the Middle East". I'd like some cold hard facts pelase. Perhaps some economic numbers, and numbers regarding the amount of military support America gets from Israel vs. Saudi Arabia?
 
I'd like some cold hard facts pelase.
Some things can't be explained by "cold hard facts." Apply your fact-based criteria to France and China and you will probably also get a confused answer in that case.
 
Iraq might be their home - but recent reports suggest that large numbers are leaving. I've read they believe that over 1 million have left their "home" for greener pastures (?).
 
the world should just watch just how savage an animal humankind really is
That would be news? After Cambodia, Burma, Mogadishu, Sudan, New Orleans, and going back a few years, Germany?

Maybe because it's so close, but New Orleans really illustrated for me how thin this veneer of civilization is.

Now, which of these forks is for salad, and which is for dessert, and which is for stabbing the hand of anyone reaching for my croissant?

Regards.
 
It amazes me how these religious fanatics just keep doing whatever it it they want and then hide under the "protective curtain" of Alah. And it really does give the rest of the muslim world a terrible reputation. On the other hand, those who are always so quick to say "that's not what we're about" never seem to want to do anything about it. It's not the answer, but honestly speaking, the way I'm feeling anymore is to issue one final warning---"You claim these actions are not what you stand for? Fine. Clean up your own mess immediately or you're ALL dead, because the world is tired of its people dying at the hands of your extremism."
 
Suicide bombers need to get more literal. Please, just kill YOURSELF ONLY! I'm sure it says somewhere in the Koran that you'll get even more virgins.
 
Not just "insurgency"?

Epyon said:
However I will agree with Bud Helms that this CURRENT problem was caused after WW2.
The current problem is only an extension of the problems that have existed for hundreds of years. The creation of the state of Israel only added fuel to the fire.
Your comments reflect an understanding of the situation that is normally the playground of young academia - meaning that it seems supported by a lot of theory and rhetoric but lacks real understanding and experience.
The truth is, unless you have spent some time in the ME then you're just not going to gain a real understanding of what's going on. The hate and violence is almost self-perpetuating - they teach their CHILDREN that martyrdom for the faith is not only acceptable, but divine.
I've seen children chanting "Death to Israel" in the streets; and after a couple generations of that you can't tell me that the violence is caused by a specific incident... it exists because people want it to exist. Every person you talk to in the ME is going to give you a slightly different version of what the root cause is - because they don't KNOW. All they know is that they've been taught that it is their holy duty to kill the infidels. Even in Palestine, you're going to get very different versions about what the root causes of the problems are; mostly you'll get "Israel has oppressed us" - but let's get real. Ask them to cite specific examples and you'll get heated vitriol and anecdotal examples rather than concrete statements.

At some point, it doesn't matter who started it - and any debate attempting to sort that point out more resembles a shouting match between 5 year olds about who "started it" than anything else. What you all need to understand is that this isn't just about foriegn policy, this isn't just about Christians, this isn't just about the "Zionists", this isn't just about suicide bombers. It's about all of these things and more...it's about being at odds with a culture that hates everyone else simply because they are everyone else. No amount of appeasement or logic is going to change that.

Yes, America's support of Israel is a major cause of hatred toward the West - but only because we keep them from being obliterated. Many uneducated muslims in the ME truly feel that the Jews are at the source of all the world's problems. I spoke to one man who swore that Jewish greed was the reason that his village didn't have electricity. Nevermind the fact that Saddam had been robbing electricity from the outlying provinces for years so that Baghdad could have power.
Hate doesn't need to make sense - it only has to be real. Remember that.

If you want a better view into how things are, I suggest going to spend some time over there.
 
Back
Top