It's all over for ...

Status
Not open for further replies.
There will be no roll back of even the silliest gun control measure as long as there is Clinton and maybe next Gore holding the presidency with its veto power over any such legislation.
We must wait until after the November Election to see if a new administration offers any possibility of a roll back.
It is better that we pass no legislation at all until next year.
I, for one, do not see the situation as hopeless. I think we have the upper hand politically, both on state and national levels.
 
I thank God that some of you weren't around in 1775, or we'd still be drinkin' hot tea instead of iced tea.
 
First and foremost, compromise has never worked. It never will. There has never been a compromise in the history of gun control. Just think about it. The only compromise has been how deep and how fast gun owners get f****d. I have yet to see an OK we'll allow hi cap bans if you allow national CCW go through. ALL the concessions have come fromour side and not from the Pervert in Chief and his orally fixated bunch. Nor will it ever come from them. Just as no concession was ever made by Hitler during his quest for some "lebensraum" no concession will ever come from his disciples with regards to "common sense" control. We are 9 months away from possibly getting them out of our lives. We should hold out and see what happens in Nov.

------------------
"Liberty is never unalienable; it must be redeemed regularly with the blood of patriots or it always vanishes."
-R.A. Heinlein
 
How soon we forget....
The late Harlan Carter, former President
of the NRA, said "Compromise is giving your
enemy something he isn't big enough to take."
We should heed those words!

------------------
Never do an enemy a minor injury. Machiavelli
"Stay alive with a 45"
 
First, the NRA needs to go to Harvard and hire an articulate and intelligent black woman to be its spokesperson on issues regarding the RKBA. Chuck and Wayne are losers when it comes to speaking persuasively in media-saturated public forums. Their characters say "blockhead" the moment they appear on the screen. Gunowners need an intellectually agile ally for whom the PC-crowd will have respect. The NRA needs to get out the checkbook and hire such a person from the camp of the other side, the sooner the better.

Second, gunowners and their representatives need to emphasize more assuredly the social benefits of private firearms ownership. With Lott's work now available, some of this talk is now done but more is needed. The militia argument and the sporting use argument are no longer persausive. As Glenn says, the right to self-defense and the fact that the vast majority of privately-owned firearms are responsibly used is potentially the most rewarding argument in our favor. I doubt if most people realize that the authorities have no obligation to provide protection for anyone. This legal reality coupled with the perception that firearms are useful and inherently safe make a powerful counter-argument (which is empirically verifiable) to much anti-gun panic-mongering.

Third, gunowners themselves need to improve their personal images. I have been hanging around gun shops and gun shows for years and still see too many firearm enthusiasts who look unclean, use foul language, and talk as if they were dropped on their head once too often as children. Gunowners need to dress and groom themselves in the most conservative manner possible. Don't swear when in public places, especially places where firearms are present. Take some classes at the local college in writing, speaking, political science, and history. Polish your words and ideas as well as your appearance. While most gunowners are already solid citizens, those who do appear to be unwashed rabble only make it that much easier for the RKBA to be sanctioned into "on paper only."

Fourth, fight campaign finance reform and other attempts to curb free speech. Demand that Congress (as well as state legislatures) have greatly reduced sessions so that they have less opportunity to monkey with the laws. Always vote against anti-gun candidates. Encourage representatives to use paraliamentary moves to block votes on any anti-gun proposal.

Fifth, work for National CCW and ask for more legal favor whenever possible regarding private firearm ownership. Don't give up, don't get discouraged. Take a lesson from the Clintons' playbook: Even at the darkest moment, perserverance will pay off. You can always stave off the other side and just get them to give up and quit. Take a non-gun owning friend to the range and let him or her shoot your favorite firearm. Encourage such people to take lessons and become gunowners too.

Sixth, consider the possibility that we are winning since questionable lawsuits against gun manufacturers and "gun safety" proposals are desperate attempts to enact more gun control when other attempts have failed.

Seventh, have plan to leave the country just in case the worst does happen. Contrary to what the anti-gun forces will have us believe, much of the world is firearm friendly. Know the international scene and use it to your advantage.

Glenn: I tried to do this post without the usual howls of rage. Thanks for the challenging and thought-provoking thread.

[This message has been edited by Trevor (edited March 28, 2000).]
 
Trevor

Good Point
If the anti gunners were winning we would not see the lawsuit blackmail of guns dealers, manufacturers and distributors. The Executive orders are more proof that for the Anti-gun crowd to move their agenda forward the must duck congress and most state legislatures. If you listen to the main stream media, then that’s part of your problem. To hear them tell it the Democrats have all ready taken control of congress and the senate, G W Bush should just go home as Al (Armand the Socialist )Gore is the default winner. Now is not the time to quit they are attacking us on several levels so why should we stop responding on several levels? It took them years of presistant effort to build this anti gun coalition in the Democratic party, the press, and the anti gun groups. Anyone who thinks we can have a quick turn around is wrong it will take years of effort on our side to turn the tide. The anti-gun crowd has been at this since 1968, most of the RKBA types have only got hot in the last 5-10 years.

If you don’t like the way the NRA, Chuck and Wayne are defending your right then find a RKBA group that you can support and join the cause. Fighting other gun groups makes about as much sense as Patton attacking the British cause they didn't take Caen on D-Day let alone for several weeks after D-Day. If you want to win this fight you have to hit them from every side and continue to hit them. You have to meet their rhetoric head on, Call them liars when they lie, Work to motivate the fence sitters and the uninformed at the grass roots level, Beat their candidates in elections, and last but not least swamp them with facts every time they open their mouths. You listen to them, we are winning (even thought the press is saying the opposite) cause they are calling us names (They resort to name calling when their facts or spin doesn’t work). Heck look at the President, every time some child gets shot, the body isn't cold before he is in the tube demanding more controls. You can bet money if they had the facts to back their proposals they would be beating us over our heads with them daily. All they have is emotion, spin and lies that they spew daily to an uninformed public who they (want to take care of). Every one of us should miss no opportunity to rally our supporters, talk to people one on one to enlighten them to what the fight is all about and enlist them on our side.

This is a war and we are still fighting the first few skirmishes, the battles are yet to come. Stop shooting our allies in the back because they are not (Fill in your gripe here) enough for you. We need all the help we can get. You dont like the NRA then Fine there is the JPFO, GOA, Second Amendment Foundation, Citizens Committee for the Right To Keep and Bear Arms, or start you own but the enemy is not the NRA, they have names like HCI, Violence Policy center, Chuck Schummer, and Dianne Fienstien to name a few. Vent your rhetoric at them.



[This message has been edited by Alan B (edited March 28, 2000).]
 
Good point. The lawsuits are a sign of desperation and right now the only company that has compromised and taken the deal is basically counting the hours until it's out of the gun business for good, while the blackmail has failed for the most part to accomplish anything except pissing people off.
We ARE winning in many ways; it looks darker than it is. On the other hand, we're still in mortal danger. That's why I'm probably going to bite my tongue and vote Bush in November. I will fight those inevitable laws as long as possible and if they pass, hope I can elect a pro-gun president who will appoint a pro-gun Supreme Court. We'll see. I respect your point of view, Glenn, but we come at the problem from different premises.
 
Thanks guys for the reasonable responses from Don and Trevor.

For Mr. Teaparty - yeah, right.

I would repeat for all that I wasn't suggesting compromise but a strategy to get more things if we give up somethings.

I have seen this work elsewhere for the benefit of the RKBA.

It is a reasonable point that it might not work given the unbending nature of the antis who would think given us one of my suggestions would be a compromise. Weird!

Personally, I would, in a NY minute, take a instant check at gun shows for private sales
if my suggetion that all Americans could own guns with a NICS check was accepted.

I lived in NYC and there was no way I would get a handgun with their laws. With my proposal - hundreds of thousands of NYC residents would rush to buy legal handguns and join the ranks of more active RKBA supporters.

That's the kind of idea I'm saying.

If it's a bad idea - OK but if you doubt my motivations - well, bad words follow.
 
"The right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed an long as they act the way we want them to"??????

As gun owners we cannot give up anything. We cannot compromise and a "National CCW" already exists.

We dont need no steenking laws. We have rights and we should be asserting them, not begging a socialistic fascist government or trying to negotiate for rights we already possess.

I know it makes people happy to think that they are doing something, but lets not confuse motion with progress.

------------------
Better days to be,

Ed
 
Thank you kjm ("Mr. Teaparty").

The parallel that comes to my mind is:

...Your family is being held hostage by a psycho. He makes it clear that he intends to kill one of your children to show he means buisiness. You start thinking of offering your wife instead since your kids still have their whole lives ahead of them....

What's wrong with this scenario? Simply that my family is non-negotiable. NONE will be killed and if he has a problem with that he has to get past me and I'm getting pissed!

Same with RKBA!!
We aren't haggeling over a used car here.... "for $2999.99 you'd better throw in the floor mats AND the seat covers!"
 
Glenn on the compromise i think it is an intresting idea but would likely backfire, the anti's would say they were foiled again by unreasonable congress critters, while the "children" still suffer! Good spin for the anti's!
I think the CCW would be pushing it(look at history even when RKBA was unquestioned CC was a no no), but it would also be intresting to see (if time permitted) the results of overturning the gun bans in NYC DC etc., it might give creedence to more guns less crime....so it cant be allowed to happen by the antis!)

I agree with the view that all is not lost yet, Clinton is using tactics of a desperate man!

I think the S&W deal will hurt him more than he knows, there are a lot of business people who are very free enterprise and see this as a very serious abuse of the system, they might not care about RKBA at all, but to any one with a business at stake i am sure there are questions being raised about the respect for free enterprise and what cause will come along next that will be back door "legslated"!

I also agree that ALOT rides on the election and will vote accordingly, my ideals be d****d. We must defeat the antis everywhere possable!
Just my 2 cents!
 
Ed - with a strategy like mine we got the CCW bill in Oregon. With an attitude like yours the a CCW bill was killed in Missouri which led to the referendum fiasco.

I am impressed by arguments that say what I propose won't work. I am not by the howls of rage.

The hostage analogy fails as the situation is not equivalent. The levels of gain and loss are not the same.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top