It it worth the money to buy and replace a barrel or buy a new upper?

K

Kimio

New member
Later down the line I'm thinking of getting a new barrel for my AR15, one with a greater twist rate. Currently I'm running with a 1/9 twist, and if I recall correctly, I'll need a barrel with a greater twist rate if I want to be able to shoot the "heavier" (not sure what term it is) rounds.

The greater twist rate apparently stabilizes them, but would it be easier to just buy a new upper or take it all apart and just swap them out.

Thoughts?
 
I would really do some experimenting first before you determine you need a faster twist barrel. My 9 twist shoots everything up to 69 gr bullets just fine. Some are reported to stabilize 75's with no problems. It'll be cheaper to try a box or two of ammo to make sure before shelling out the bucks for a new barrel or upper.

Another thing to think about is whether or not you have a need to shoot heavier/longer bullets. In my experience, 55-60 gr bullets do 99% of what I want to do with an AR. Unless you're shooting long range or high power matches, or you got a great deal on surplus 62 gr penetrator (m855?) ammo, you'll be fine with the shorter, lighter and cheaper bullets. They work great for ranges up to 300 yards or so, and this is longer than 99% of us ever REALLY shoot.

However, if you're wanting to buy another barrel or upper
to tinker with, far be it from me to talk you out of it. Lord knows I do my part for the economy buying gun stuff I don't really need.
 
1 in 7 is great for 55 grain to 77 grain . If you buy an upper it will be all set to go ,if you buy a barrel you will need to remove the old barrel and headspace the new barrel . IMHO if you have never done this B4 and don't have the tools ,buy an upper with a new BCG .
 
I would get a 2nd upper so you can easily go back if you want.

Plus, I think an upper is easier to sell if you want than a lone barrel.
 
I think buying a second upper is a good idea, later on when you have extra cash floating around you can get a cheap lower and make another rifle!
 
IMO, having two uppers in the same caliber is, well, I'd never even consider it.
Swapping out a barrel is child's play. Half an hour you can change it out and re-assemble.
Why in the world buy a second upper?

I doubt the guys recommending buying an entire upper for the sake of a barrel swap have ever built one... it's easy.
 
Doubt it all you like ,I have been building AR's for years . Without the tools a litle skill you can end up with a screwed up rifle . I can just see him useing a pipe wrench and a hammer in a vice . Aim has a nice Spikes/FN upper for $499.99 on sale now ,a BCM FA BCG is about $125.00 .This will be better then most anything he's going to build even if he knew what he was doing.He can sell his old upper for $250.00 to $300 and be golden.
https://www.aimsurplus.com/eos/images/product//large_XSTU9540NOBCG.jpg
http://www.aimsurplus.com/catalog.aspx?groupid=55
 
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@Gonif...
No doubt, it can be screwed up, like anything else...

But it isn't rocket science, as the old adage goes.
My 18 year old son, with absolutely no firearms build experience- and very little experience with tools in general- built his 6.5 Grendel AR in one night ("scratch", stripped upper and lower) with common sense, and Glen Zediker's book- along with the very good tutorials on Brownell's website. Aside from the upper and lower receiver blocks, and a set of pin punches, no other specialized tools were purchased. Building an AR was far easier and simpler than I had envisioned.

To my point... after assembly, we had a FTF problem we couldn't figure out. Rounds would not center on the bolthead properly, and AA suggested we disassemble and check the feed ramp alignment and polish the very sharp edges on the barrel feed ramps. He had it disassembled and the barrel out in fifteen minutes... (in the end, it ended up being an overly long ejector).

If it were my money, I'd spend all those extra hundreds on a match grade barrel with matching (headspaced) bolt, rather than a whole upper that's not needed. That $500 would buy one hell of a match grade barrel, and a better trigger, to boot.

Just my $.02... YMMV
 
New barrel... get a Krieger, they are considered the best in my book...
Click to expand...

No arguement from me. My kreiger upper shoots! I am of the buy another upper clan. Getting a lower is almost painless these days. Then you have two.
 
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Don't be afraid to replace the barrel, IF IF IF you are somewhat mechanically inclined. It's really not that hard to do... kind of like putting a water pump on an a rear wheel drive car. It really isn't rocket science, but it is a process.

If you like to tinker on guns, do the barrel swap. If your idea of tinkering is cleaning it, then just order an upper. You'll have to buy specialty tools for doing the barrel swap that you probably will never use again if you don't like working on your guns. This will make the barrel swap just about as expensive as buying an upper.
 
Thankyou everyone, I should have elaborate on this rifles purpose. I don't live in an area where having a rifle caliber gun would be ideal for home defense (populated suburbs) so this rifle will mainly be a range rifle. I like tinkering and figuring out the inner workings of my guns, I've had a great interest in learning how to do this but have always been a bit afraid to do anything since I lack experience and proper tools. Though I do know my away around a wrench or two (fiddled around with cars when I was younger) I unfortunately don't own anything fancy other than some basic house hold tools (hammers, screwdrivers, socket wrenches etc)

I'm looking to fire the heavier loads as my skills improve, currently I'm using cheap ammo (Wolf/Tula) to practice on an hopefully get into the grades to where I may be able to go to competitions later (nothing Crazy but something to just have fun with)

My AR is a Stag Model 4 M16 style rifle with a 20" barrel. It certainly more accurate than I am. If I do go the route of replacing the barrel, what tools will I need besides a gun vice and barrel nut wrench?
 
Kimio;

Spend some time viewing Brownell's video series:

http://www.brownells.com/.aspx/lid=11004/learn/

It'll tell you what you need. Some tools can be done without. Do roll pin starter punches make the job easier? You bet... Do you need them? No...
As I said, we purchased only the upper and lower receiver vise blocks, a good set of pin punches, and the barrel nut wrench. All other common hand tools were already owned.

I think Glenn Zedicker's book is a must have:
http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/?productNumber=575254

If you get hung up anywhere (and I really doubt you will), there's plenty of help online here. Good luck!
 
Personally, I'd not bother even thinking about it unless and until you started shooting the 75 grain stuff, and even then I'd give it a go in that existing barrel... while 1 in 7 is more "ideal" for the stuff heavier than 62-65 grains, there are indeed several who report their 1 in 9 barrel shooting the 75gr stuff just fine. Some will, some won't.

IMO, no point in laying out a couple hundred bucks for a barrel, another bit for the tools, and then potentially wrecking a perfectly good setup just in case you first decide to shoot the heavier stuff and then discover they are a bit less accurate out of your gun.

Sure, you could. But I don't know that it's really worth it until there's actually an issue.
 
+1 on shoot it as-is and see if you really need a faster twist barrel.

A 1/9 barrel will easily shoot the 69 gr BTHP bullets well. Some will even shoot the 75 BTHP OK. You can't really shoot any bullets heavier than 77 gr in an AR platform due to the mag length restriction on the cartridge overall length. The 69 gr BTHP should do all you need for longer ranges. There are many excellent HP and plastic tipped bullets that are very accurate in the 55 gr - 62 gr range as well.

I would only get another barrel if you end up wanting a shorter one, a match barrel, or find some reason that you actually need to shoot 75 gr bullets. Then if you don't plan to swap barrels often you can just get the tools and replace the barrel.

But if you want to be able to quickly swap barrels at the range or whatever, you might want a complete upper: then you could have a 20" target rifle or a 16" carbine. And then it will be tempting to build another complete lower for $200-$250 or so and have two rifles!
 
And then it will be tempting to build another complete lower for $200-$250 or so and have two rifles!
Click to expand...

Yeah, it's amazing how fast that spare upper becomes a complete rifle. You find yourself thinking "Hey, I can get a lower, LPK, and stock for under $250... then I won't need to swap anything over!"

That's how they multiply. :D
 
Greenhill Formula

From my book, The ABCs of Reloading, Bill Chevalier, it applies the Greenhill Formula this way, manually calculated:
"The optimum twist rate for a bullet is determined by dividing 150 by the length of the bullet in calibers (hundredths of an inch) and then dividing again by its diameter. The number 150 is a good choice since it allows a useful margin in the calculations. Most twist rates that are close to the formulated ideal will usually work well. The beauty of this formula is that it works very well for lead or jacketed bullets. Weight does not appear to be a critical factor.

My Hornady book have their 75gr bthp loaded to magazine length and in their testing shoots accurately to 600yds. I've just bought 2 boxes of this to try in my AR rifle.
 
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