It happened to us

"Another point I thought about -- the kids were lucky because my wife had placed a cordless phone in the bedroom so she could call and wake the youngest up. The two kids share a cell phone. I'm going to get another and make sure they have one in each bedroom."

A cell is a good backup, but I would prefer a land line, as with enhanced 911, they police will know your address without anyone saying a word. Depending on your setup, it can be hard to identify and cut the line coming in. A cell would be good, but a cordless with several handsets would be a priority, IMHO.
 
My (boys) had major caliber handguns in their room at 14...They were precocious though.

Next time I'm caught speeding, I'm gonna use that defense! I didn't know I was speeding in a 'vehicle', LOL:D

Glad your girls are ok btw.
 
Glad the kids are fine , but you got realy lucky with this . The fact that the police were just around the corner is one you can't count on . At 17 and 14 the girls should be trained to use the gun in a life treatening situation which this could easily have become in a matter of seconds .

You realy need to get a locked safe for that pistol that can be secured to a wall or floor . There are many that are under a hundred dollars and while they aren't 3 inch thick steel if a burglar doesn't have cutting tools he isn't going to get into it .

As far as a dog goes I would go to the local dog pound and pick up a couple of nice mixed breed pups that are say Sheppard , Lab , Chow or Collie mix and will grow up to be about 50-60 lbs+ Forget the monster $1,000 Rotties or whatever , most people realy don't want a 100-150 lb dog running around the house . The smaller midsized dog if treated as a family member and well loved will protect you and yours with it's life and having two will give them someone to play with when a family member is just not interested in playing with the dog .
 
I'm glad everyone is OK, and it sounds like the rookie cop deserves to be commended on a job well done.

One of my shooting buddies has a 98lb. Doberman, and if she doesn't keep people out, nothing will. Fortunately for me, I've known the dog for years, and she likes me, but I sure wouldn't want to be someone who be someone who broke into their house and pissed that dog off!
 
Let me lay some cold hard facts on you KYJIM. I have many inmates in my prison who are in for Burglary or Robbery and Kidnapping and Rape, and also murder to get rid of witnesses. These scumbags did not enter the home or business with the intention of committing a rape/murder, they did it because they had an opportunity at a defenseless female. The key word being DEFENSELESS!! Any real resistance by the female, and by real I mean no less than a firearm, would have stopped the crime. Criminals are gamblers that figure the odds, you have to turn those odds against them.
Had he known the girls were home and defenseless he would have likely gone farther. That is if he had already committed a crime. He would not want to leave witnesses and he likely would have accosted them prior to killing them. Yes that is brutal, but take my word for it, that is the way it is. With my 14 years as a corrections officer, working in close quarters with thousands of these scum bags, you can take my word on it.
Most people live in a bubble. They say it can’t happen to me or mine. But Jim, it darn near happened to yours. You and your wife need to recognize that and answer it affirmatively.
Do not raise defenseless women in a world of predators!!
That’s my two bits
 
Blackwater OPS said:
if the line is dead or no one on the other end gives the code word the cops get called.
That's what I call bad procedures. The monitoring company should not start with the assumption that it is a false alarm. they should call the police right away.

Blackwater OPS said:
Also many have battery backups that will still sound an audible alarm that will scare off most bad guys and warn occupants.
The only way cut phone lines affect alarm systems is preventing the system communicate to the monitoring station. A back-up battery would not even come in to play in that scenario. Yes, the siren will ring, cut phone lines or not, and they are quite effective at chasing off the bad guy a good percentage of the time...especially when its a residential break-in.

stephen426 said:
There are actually 2 ways around having a bad guy cut the phone line.
There is at least a third way. Its been given the moniker of "buddy backup" by some. What they do is send a wireless signal to a neighboring system and use that systems communication capabilities to report for the compromised system. It is cheaper than cell backup, but it obviously wouldn't work in remote areas.
 
At 17 and 14 the girls should be trained to use the gun in a life treatening situation which this could easily have become in a matter of seconds .

Yeap. There's no safety in ignorance. Plus it builds character & discipline.
 
That's what I call bad procedures. The monitoring company should not start with the assumption that it is a false alarm. they should call the police right away.

This would result in the police being called to false alarms numerous times, and that will result in LARGE fines (in OC esp.). That's why alarm companies verify alarm calls and esp. trouble calls which occur all the time absent real emergencies.

The only way cut phone lines affect alarm systems is preventing the system communicate to the monitoring station. A back-up battery would not even come in to play in that scenario. Yes, the siren will ring, cut phone lines or not, and they are quite effective at chasing off the bad guy a good percentage of the time...especially when its a residential break-in.

If the BG is going to cut phone lines, it would make sense that he might find a way to shut off the power as well.
 
KyJim, I wanted to send this to you via pm or email but your preferences do not allow it. I've posted this before. Hopefully it will help you as you consider getting a security system

Why have a monitored system

Monitoring is a good thing because the thought of the police arriving is the thing that motivates the BG to run away. That is exactly what we want. If the police aren’t coming he has nothing to fear, unless of course the homeowner is present and armed. Monitoring assures that this chain reaction is in place and BG's can continue to run for fear of being caught. I have known several cases where the BG initially fled the premises but lingered in the area, and when there is no police response he returned, ignoring the siren, to finish the job. The siren is not for the neighbors, it is for the BG, to tell him his presence has been detected. That's why I don't believe in outside sirens. Internal sirens are the way to go and the more ear-splitting and piercing they are, the better, as it might discourage them from grabbing your stereo on their way out. Unmonitored systems just ring, and that's it. Nobody cares. An outside siren just annoys everyone in the neighborhood. Residential alarms and car alarms go off all the time and nobody pays any attention. Monitored security systems can protect your home while you are away. But even if you don't care about your "stuff", monitored systems also ensure that your unoccupied home is safe for your wife to return to when she comes back from the grocery store. A young mother was recently murdered in my area, where that exact thing happened. She came home, disturbed a burglar in her home, and after he raped her he stabbed her to death.

SOP and false alarms

Different monitoring companies have different standard operating procedures (SOP) and most tailor their SOP to deal with the problem of false alarms. False alarms are the bane of the industry and the reasons why cops are now refusing to respond in many cities. The number one cause of false alarms is customer error. In order to deal with this, the industry has adopted something referred to as “alarm verification”, where the monitoring station calls the residence to confirm whether or not this is a real event or just a false alarm. This means that every signal is assumed to be a false alarm and the police are only called when it cannot be confirmed to be false. Something is wrong with that process. Some of these big companies even boast about their SOP and feature them prominently in their national TV advertising. You’ll see commercials where a residential alarm goes off and then the security company calls the residence to verify. This is not providing protection, it's unnecessarily delaying the arrival of assistance. The very first thing the monitoring company should do is call the police without delay. The delay in dispatching police also gives the bad guy several minutes to roam freely throughout your house and take whatever he wants (while the phone rings) knowing the police haven’t even been notified yet. You also want the police dispatched ASAP because the result of any delay could be loss of life. Yours or the BG. You have your firearms to protect you, but you want the police to arrive ASAP so that you don’t have to kill anyone. Just so you know, there are ways to deal with customer caused false alarms where the police are immediately dispatched but then canceled by the user without them even having to pick up the phone. Its safe, much more efficient, and keeps cops happy. I’ll save the details of that for another time. For the record, although the monitoring company initially calls the police, they should still call the residence in attempt to connect with the homeowner. In the event of a actual intrusion the homeowner is connected with the outside world and can provide info to the police.

Perimeter protection

There is no protection without perimeter protection. Perimeter protection means that all accessible (some prefer all) windows and doors are wired. This lets you move about freely in your home with the system armed. Although the technology in motion detectors/passive infrared detectors has improved in recent years with self-verification and the ability to discern the difference between a small pets and a human walking around, they should still be considered a back-up to the primary protection provided by your perimeter protection. After user error, motion detectors are biggest cause of false alarms so should not be counted on as your primary defense. They are also relatively easy to defeat if you know what you're doing. Not only that, but if your entire system is motion detection based, then you have no protection at all when you're at home. Perimeter protection gives you early warning of an intrusion before the BG is in your home. When the system goes off at night waking you up, you can retrieve your firearm and make sure your family is safe and accounted for knowing that there is a good chance the BG is still outside and the police have already been dispatched and are on their way. You cannot control whether the police response will be fast or slow, but at least they have been notified, and you’re already doing your own part to ensure the safety of your family – gun in hand.

What company to deal with

Stay away from any company whose name you recognize such as Brinks, ADT, etc. You might think that national recognition would be a good thing but in most cases its not. The reason why they are nationally known and so large is because they built themselves into the huge corporation that they are on those monthly monitoring contracts. Most of these big companies set up agreements with small companies where the small company becomes the "authorized dealer" of the big company's products. It’s a very symbiotic relationship for them. The small company gets full advertising rights and privileges to use the big company's name and logo which brings in the business, and once the customer signs on the dotted line, the small company sells the contract to the big company. These contracts are usually 2-5 years and provide the big company with the re-occurring revenue generated by the monthly monitoring fees. They might as well be selling cell phones…it’s the same principle. The smaller company is no longer concerned about the customer since they already got what they wanted out of the deal. They are not motivated to provide continued service since there is nothing in it for them. Because it’s all about throwing the system together and getting the contract signed, inferior equipment is often used and poorly installed. A great example of poor quality equipment are the systems that are compromised of all-in-one units, where it is the keypad, control panel (brains), and siren, all in one unit. It’s usually large and ugly and situated right inside the entry way. All the BG has to do is break in and take a hammer to the thing and it is defeated. This not a security system. They install systems like this to save time...and time is money. They get the equipment in ASAP, get the contract signed, sell it to the larger company, and everybody wins...except the customer. They don't care about the product installed, or whether the job was done well, as long as you sign on the dotted line they are happy. Because these companies are getting your money every month, there is no incentive to keep you a happy customer and their customer service may not be so great when you need service work or decide to upgrade to additional protection. For the record, a quality hard-wire installation could take a full day or more depending on the size and construction of the house, and you won't even know its there.
 
Very informative Chooch, thanks. But while you gave good info on what outfit not to do business with, you said little about about what we should look for in an alarm company. How 'bout a few pointers in that area :) .
 
Blackwater OPS said:
This would result in the police being called to false alarms numerous times, and that will result in LARGE fines (in OC esp.).
Homeowners cause most false alarms, I probably mentioned that it my cut 'n pasted rant above. If a homeowner causes an activation they have the ability to disarm the system. Its called a cancel code. Police may have already been contacted, but upon receiving the cancel code, the monitoring company calls the police back and cancel's their response accordingly. To be quite honest, the police are usually not in a hurry anyway, and being cancelled en-route is considered better than rolling up on scene for a false alarm. Customer caused false alarms are generally cancelled so quickly its not an issue. The problem with the monitoring company verifying by calling the premises is the unnecessary delay that can result in loss of life. I'm sure that if the bad guy that broke into KyJim's house had discovered his girls, KyJim would not feel comfortable with any delay in police response at all. Every second would count.

Blackwater OPS said:
If the BG is going to cut phone lines, it would make sense that he might find a way to shut off the power as well.
Yes, then the backup battery would kick-in in the event of power loss. I agree it makes sense, but it rarely happens. Although I'm sure it has happened, off the top of my head I cannot recall such an event. Its mostly seen only in movies.
 
Capt Charlie said:
while you gave good info on what outfit not to do business with, you said little about about what we should look for in an alarm company. How 'bout a few pointers in that area.
Ok. Where do I start? I would recommend a hard wired system as opposed to a wireless system. A good company should be able to completely hide every wire even when installing in a finished home that was not pre-wired. All you will see is the attached equipment such as the control panel hidden in a closet somewhere, keypads, motion detectors, etc. Even the door and window switches will be unseen. If a company does not have enough faith in their installation expertise to promise that every wire will be hidden, then don't do business with them. I mentioned monitoring procedures above. Make sure their procedures involve calling the police ASAP. You're probably better off with an experienced local company who pride themselves in a job well done. If you don't get the sense that they're in it to provide you with the protection you need, then move on. Be wary of the salesmen. Those guys could work in any industry that involves sales. They might as well be selling cars or vacuum cleaners. Make sure the rep you talk to really knows his stuff - don't let a slick salesman work his magic. Ask a lot of questions. The company should use high quality equipment and should be able to tell you what makes his equipment better than others. Some control panels have quicker communication capabilities than others for example. You'll eventually have problems with standard PIR motion detectors. The best motion detectors have a built-in verification system. There were some motion detectors out there that combined PIR technology along with what was essentially radar. The idea was that one technology would verify the other before it activated. But the best I've ever seen was a dual PIR unit that verified itself and performed even better than the PIR/radar combo. Good equipment will a cost a little more, but do you want your teenage girls protected or not? I'll also add that equipment positioning is important as well. Motion detectors should not be pointed at windows. Depending on the layout of the house, you can usually get away with one motion detector per floor. It should be positioned in a central area such as a hallway. Basically, try to cut the house in half with it, preventing the ability for movement. Keypads should not face outside windows for obvious reasons. So call different companies, ask them to come out and look at your house (every house has unique protection needs) and see who incorporates some of these ideas.
 
Last edited:
KyJim said:
1. Do you tell your kids not to answer the door to strangers? In this instance, the burglar probably would have gone to another house had they answered. However, we have always been concerned that even a locked storm door provided minimal protection against someone who actually wants to enter to commit bodily harm.

2. Until my kids were old enough to understand not to touch, I did not leave a loaded firearm in the house. Is leaving a loaded revolver near the bedside while I'm not at home a tactical mistake? Do others do this?
1. I don't have kids but if I did, I would never ever have them answer the door to strangers for any reason.

2. If you're going somewhere it's best to stash it in the safe. Even if you don't carry, if you return home and someone's in there with a gun he conveniently found by your bed, that's not too excellent... right?
 
Just having finished reading a book on the BTK serial killer, who had a job installing alarm systems (Yikes!) during the early part of his spree, who knew enough to cut the phone lines (another yikes!)...his initial victims had a dog, martial arts skills... and still... but enough of that. (worthy of a read tho')

I'm sooo glad your girls are OK.

Teach them shooting skills. Harden your perimeter.

NOW!

Please.

Again, I'm glad your family is safe and secure. Kudo's to your Police Dept.

I didn't know I had stolen a gun... sheesh. Yeah, Like we all believe that.

Bad things can (and do) happen to good people.
 
Capt Charlie,

I was just thinking of something else. Its very important how door switches are installed. I would say most companies installed them on the top of the door towards the doorknob side. This could potentially lead to false alarms or even what appears to be false alarms. There is a lot of give in that area of the door. Its the opposite side from the hinges and the only thing securing the door to that side of the frame is the door knob/deadbolt, etc.

The ideal place for the switch to be located is on the top, right in the middle of the door. This is true for two reasons: 1- its close enough to the hinges that there's not enough give to cause the secured door to be moved away from the switch causing a false alarm, and 2- it is far enough from the hinges that it will still provide instant activation when the door is opened without compromising safety.

Of course the worst would be if the switch were installed right by the hinges. In that case, because the door is never far from the hinges (obviously), it would not activate until the door was opened to nearly its fullest point. Not good.

You want a company that understands this.
 
Last edited:
Don't answer the door

My city recently started a "do not knock" registry. They sent out a sign that says solicitors and peddlers are not allowed to knock. It's on my front door. First offense is a fourth-degree misdemeanor with a $250 fine. Second offense is a first-degree misdemeanor, and a $1000 fine.

When someone rings the doorbell, I look out the window first, and if I don't recognize them, I don't open the door. Yes, little girls selling Girl Scout cookies are always welcome.

But anyone breaking into the house is asking to go home in a body bag.
 
Man that's scary.

I am sure glad that everything turned out OK for the girls.

I had a large family. Everyone of the kids learned about guns and how to shoot at an early age. Gun education from infancy. Learning to shoot from age 6 (with adult supervision). None ever had the need to defend themselves with a gun. Thank goodness for that. The option was there though.

As far as storing guns, the rule was; No Loaded Guns in the house. The guns were unloaded and racked. The ammo went in a different spot than the guns. There was no loaded bedroom gun.

All the kids and my wife took a hunters safety course.

Now that the kids have left home, I keep a loaded handgun in the bedroom in a locked box. The rifles and shotguns are racked in the bedroom and no ammo nearby. The bedroom is locked when we leave. Not that a locked bedroom door would keep out a thief, but if the kids come to visit and we are not at home this keeps the grandkids away from the guns. My kids have a key to enter the home, not the bedroom.

Well that is me. I have had guns from my childhood, and so have my children. I believe it is a great blessing that we can have them for defense of self and home, and other uses, but also believe that with the possession of guns comes a grave responsibility to keep them secure and stored safely, and to educate all family members on gun safety and usage. We would sure feel bad if someone (innocent) was to get hurt or killed with one of our guns.

I like the idea of a small bedroom safe for a handgun. My locked box does the same thing, but is not real quick to get open, especially if you had trouble finding the key.
 
2. Until my kids were old enough to understand not to touch, I did not leave a loaded firearm in the house. Is leaving a loaded revolver near the bedside while I'm not at home a tactical mistake? Do others do this?

On question 2, it may be relevant that my wife has been anti-gun for many years since a friend was killed with an "unloaded" gun by a drunk who was playing with it. As a result, my daughters have not been taught to use firearms. I know I may get flamed about this but this was one of those differences that could have resulted in very serious marital problems and something we just agreed to disagree about.

First of all: I am very happy for you that it turned out so nicely.

Now some criticism, positive one: A gun you don't control can be used against you. That's why I never leave any gun loaded outside the vault unless I carry it on my body. Imagine what the guy could have done to your kids with your gun. In fact, where I live you would have lost your right to own any guns for life for leaving a gun you don't actually carry unlocked.

That's also the reason why some experienced guys don't carry backup guns, but one gun and one other backup-tool such as a knife or spray. You can't control a BG and two guns in a close in fight.

If you want a ready defense tool, leave Jet Protectors ("Guardian Angels") or good pepper spray lying around in the house. They work and if they're turned against you, they don't kill.

Teach your kids the safe use of firearms. Tell your wife that her firend died because some drunk didn't know about the safe use of firearms. I carry 24/7 so I don't drink. Period. Strict, simple, safe and effective.
 
Back
Top