Issues at the Range

[stagpanther]

I have two Howa 1500 actions and they have a couple of characteristics that might be related to what you're experiencing.

My two rifles have light sporter barrels to begin with--so I can't just go banging merrily away with lots of shots or else the accuracy wanders. Also, a consistent hold (as with any rifle) is important for repeatable accuracy. More than likely IMO you are having a fitment of the action to the stock--any stock--issue.

Hogue stocks generally have an aluminum pillar bedding, check it over to see if there is any metal flashing/burrs that might create uneveness. Howa uses a rather unusual recoil lug that features a forward taper, depending upon how deep the lug slot in the stock is and how the action is positioned it's fairly easy to get a less than optimal positioning of the lug in the stock. That's one of my "usual suspects" for action movement of a Howa in a stock.

The other rather unique characteristic is how far back the rear action screw is--the B&C stock that I put a Vanguard in (same as Howa 1500) there's not a whole lot there to support the rearmost part of the receiver. I think torquing down hard on that rear screw could easily compress the rear of the bedding and create an asymmetry.

 

[USAF Ret]

Run a box test for the scope.

Bed the action in the new stock.

100 fps is pretty notable, unless you're normally shooting in 100+ F temps. I'd suspect the measurement tool before *all* of the powders being that sensitive.
I have tested almost a dozen powders from sub-freezing to over 104 F (testing for velocity change, as well as group size and vertical shift). Some got pretty angry in the cold, and some got demonic in the heat. But velocity swings of ~100 fps took big temperature swings and fewer powders than expected showed enough change to worry about. (Ironically, two of the worst performing powders were advertised and "known to be" 'temperature insensitive'.)


Mount it over the top.

Can't mount it on top. Has a hooded front sight.

Barrel length was why I may have seen speed differences. Also noticed after it was warmed up a while, it showed speed increase. Contacted the company and got some good tips from them.

Thanks.

 

[USAF Ret]

I have two Howa 1500 actions and they have a couple of characteristics that might be related to what you're experiencing.

My two rifles have light sporter barrels to begin with--so I can't just go banging merrily away with lots of shots or else the accuracy wanders. Also, a consistent hold (as with any rifle) is important for repeatable accuracy. More than likely IMO you are having a fitment of the action to the stock--any stock--issue.

Hogue stocks generally have an aluminum pillar bedding, check it over to see if there is any metal flashing/burrs that might create uneveness. Howa uses a rather unusual recoil lug that features a forward taper, depending upon how deep the lug slot in the stock is and how the action is positioned it's fairly easy to get a less than optimal positioning of the lug in the stock. That's one of my "usual suspects" for action movement of a Howa in a stock.

The other rather unique characteristic is how far back the rear action screw is--the B&C stock that I put a Vanguard in (same as Howa 1500) there's not a whole lot there to support the rearmost part of the receiver. I think torquing down hard on that rear screw could easily compress the rear of the bedding and create an asymmetry.

This is a view of the HOWA stock. Looks like just a fiberglass channel.

 

[stagpanther]

My Hogue stock has full-length pillar/bedding and it's exposed so I can see the aluminum--but it's pretty old and maybe they cover it now with the fibergoo. I can't tell from your pic how extensive the aluminum bedding is. Just my opinion, but having the action screw torque points at the extreme ends of the receiver/bedding means that any unevenness in between will very likely show up as movement--think of a seesaw. Lots of shooters love Howa's front screw/lug arrangement, but I'm not one of them, I prefer the front screw off by itself and a deeper lug slot in the stock. Either way, I found that I must bed my Howa/vanguards really well with a high-quality strong epoxy--I forget the name of the stuff (I'm overseas at the moment) but Bart B. on this forum knows the name of the stuff. Don't overlook bedding of the bottom metal cut-outs as well. Hopefully Scorch will weigh in with his wisdom.

 

[USAF Ret]

My Hogue stock has full-length pillar/bedding and it's exposed so I can see the aluminum--but it's pretty old and maybe they cover it now with the fibergoo. I can't tell from your pic how extensive the aluminum bedding is. Just my opinion, but having the action screw torque points at the extreme ends of the receiver/bedding means that any unevenness in between will very likely show up as movement--think of a seesaw. Lots of shooters love Howa's front screw/lug arrangement, but I'm not one of them, I prefer the front screw off by itself and a deeper lug slot in the stock. Either way, I found that I must bed my Howa/vanguards really well with a high-quality strong epoxy--I forget the name of the stuff (I'm overseas at the moment) but Bart B. on this forum knows the name of the stuff. Don't overlook bedding of the bottom metal cut-outs as well. Hopefully Scorch will weigh in with his wisdom.

I just had the bed the B&C stock I had bought for it. Let's me know I cannot just buy a stock and drop it in.

 

[USAF Ret]

Well, I give up on the HOWA 270 Win. I have changed scopes, changed stocks, bedded the stock, various ammo, etc. Not chasing this with money anymore.

I finally got Norma to actually give me a group of some kind. Best I could get is the 4 shot group below. The other "groups" were worse. Other ammo would not even hit the target. This one is getting sold or traded. I have other rifles that are tack drivers and I will have fun with those. Thanks for all the help.

 

[stagpanther]

Kinda hard to tell with only 4 shots--but interesting that you have 2 close and then another two close as opposed to random wide spread.

 

[USAF Ret]

Kinda hard to tell with only 4 shots--but interesting that you have 2 close and then another two close as opposed to random wide spread.

It is odd. All the groups were like that. Had one I hit center. Thought I was on to something and next shot was thrown 5 inches to the left. I am stumped. It has had over 100 shots through it, so the barrel is broken in.

I know it is not me because I shoot decent groups with all my other rifles. All of my CVAs shoot MOA or better.

 

[USAF Ret]

Kinda hard to tell with only 4 shots--but interesting that you have 2 close and then another two close as opposed to random wide spread.

Oh, there was a whole box of shots they were literally all over the target. This was my last four after I cleaned the target up. I just put it in the case after that. Wasted ammo.

 

[taylorce1]

I'd like to play with that rifle, just because I like a challenge.

 

[USAF Ret]

I'd like to play with that rifle, just because I like a challenge.

Well sir, you have better skills than I do.

Only other thing I can think of an issue with the barrel. I have checked the box on everything else. Thinking of running it by the gunsmith for a full checkover before I get rid of it. Just in case it's something obvious that is a cheap fix.

 

[stagpanther]

Oh, there was a whole box of shots they were literally all over the target. This was my last four after I cleaned the target up. I just put it in the case after that. Wasted ammo.

Howa 1500/Vanguards that I have have light sporter barrels--I can't shoot but a few shots at a time well-spaced it time to get good groups. Might be a good idea to get a bore scope down the barrel and check the chamber, throat and bore--irregularities in there could be throwing your shots--or you might have debris or residue build-up you might not be aware of. That's not all that unusual for a new rifle. I'd say around 40% of my new firearms purchases have something wrong with the barrel's inards and some kind of finishing/lapping might be required.

IMO a barrel that is really well-made doesn't need breaking in. But you'll have to pay for that. Overzealous "breaking in" can actually do damage in some cases without keeping an eye on the bore IMO.

 

[USAF Ret]

Howa 1500/Vanguards that I have have light sporter barrels--I can't shoot but a few shots at a time well-spaced it time to get good groups. Might be a good idea to get a bore scope down the barrel and check the chamber, throat and bore--irregularities in there could be throwing your shots--or you might have debris or residue build-up you might not be aware of. That's not all that unusual for a new rifle. I'd say around 40% of my new firearms purchases have something wrong with the barrel's inards and some kind of finishing/lapping might be required.

IMO a barrel that is really well-made doesn't need breaking in. But you'll have to pay for that. Overzealous "breaking in" can actually do damage in some cases without keeping an eye on the bore IMO.

Yeah, I will probably have the smith at least do an inspection.

I don't do any break in on rifle barrels. I may run a bore snake through it a couple of times every 5 shots or so when shooting initially. All of my other rifles seem to work well with that.

Thanks.

 

[taylorce1]

Yeah, I will probably have the smith at least do an inspection.

Something you might try is swaping your optics again. Try putting the scope that's on your .270 on a rifle with a load you know is good. Since you suspect there is a problem with your .270 rifle, this would be a confirmation step.

If you had an accurate rifle from the start, I'd just put a diffrent scope on your .270 and shoot. This has not been the case with this particular rifle. You need to rule out the optics are not the issue. I know you swaped scopes already from a Diamondback to something else?

If it turns out it isn't an optic issue, I'd try to get Legacy International to warranty the rifle if it's an option. The rifle may not have a MOA guarantee, but they may still do something if it shoots that bad and is truly a lemon. They might take care of you even if the rifle is a few years old.

My buddy had a Ruger M77 .300 WM for nearly 20 years and killed a lot of game but it started having accuracy issues. He was going to have Ruger put a new barrel on it, sent it in and a couple weeks later Ruger contacted him to get an FFL they could ship his new rifle to. He only had to pay for the transfer fee, unfortunately Ruger wouldn't tell him what they found wrong with ith his old rifle.

 

[Mr_Goo]

This is just my view, If I was in your postion OP, I would sell the guns you're not happy with, if the manuf wont do something with the warranty. Sounds like youre going to alot of trouble to get them to be shooters.

 

[czgunner]

Manufacturer should be paying to look at this thing.

Sent from my Pixel 3 using Tapatalk

 

[603Country]

I had a new rifle that shot poorly. After running through many reloads, it had to be the scope, so I swapped scopes. Turned out that the second scope was also bad. Third scope was good and accuracy turned out to be great. Another new rifle needed a new barrel. The maker told me that it met spec and would do nothing. I replaced the barrel and now have a great shooter.

And one more example. I swapped for a rifle that was known for excellent accuracy, and the other guy said he just could not make it shoot well. But with my favorite bullet and powder for that caliber that rifle shot wonderfully. The guy was just using the wrong bullet and powder. That’s all it was.

 

[USAF Ret]

I had a new rifle that shot poorly. After running through many reloads, it had to be the scope, so I swapped scopes. Turned out that the second scope was also bad. Third scope was good and accuracy turned out to be great. Another new rifle needed a new barrel. The maker told me that it met spec and would do nothing. I replaced the barrel and now have a great shooter.

And one more example. I swapped for a rifle that was known for excellent accuracy, and the other guy said he just could not make it shoot well. But with my favorite bullet and powder for that caliber that rifle shot wonderfully. The guy was just using the wrong bullet and powder. That’s all it was.

I tried three different scopes. Different ammo. Stock work.

I am going to have the smith look at the bore for something obvious. If he doesn't find anything, it is getting traded. I could play with the company and try to have them fix it, but too much hassle for a cheap rifle.

 

[stagpanther]

Get in touch with Legacy Sports Int. in NV--they are the ones that bring em in to the US. It's worth a call and you might just get a free new rifle out of the deal. Dealers can run hot or cold on standing behind their stuff. Maybe you should consider a Henry--I know from first hand experience they will "do whatever it takes" to satisfy an owner of their rifles if anything goes wrong with it. They have some awfully nice-looking bottle-neck cartridge lever guns I would love to have.

 

[USAF Ret]

Get in touch with Legacy Sports Int. in NV--they are the ones that bring em in to the US. It's worth a call and you might just get a free new rifle out of the deal. Dealers can run hot or cold on standing behind their stuff. Maybe you should consider a Henry--I know from first hand experience they will "do whatever it takes" to satisfy an owner of their rifles if anything goes wrong with it. They have some awfully nice-looking bottle-neck cartridge lever guns I would love to have.

I will give them a call today. Thanks stag. Yes, I would love a Long Ranger in 6.5 CR. I need to clear the current stable of a few first. I have resigned myself that any new rifles I get have to be gotten from getting rid of ones I already have.