Issue with bolt not closing

S

solano2482

Inactive
Hi,

I am new to this forum, so excuse me for possibly asking a common question for a some what new reloader. I have been reloading for about 9 months, and have gone deep into it. I have reloaded 357 mag, 44 mag, 22-250, and 308 win with no problems until now. I am having a hard time closing the bolt on some ammo i recently made. This is what I am using.

-Lapua Brass fired 7 times that was full length resized this time around, and trimmed to 2.005 inches

-Hornady 178 grain Amax projectile with a COAL of 2.010 measured at the ogive

- BR-2 primer. The primer pocket is always cleaned, and uniformed.

- Varget Powder.

I full length resize everything 3rd firing. Let me know what you guys think. Thanks!
 
Have you 'smoked' a dummy round that will not chamber to see where the 'bright' spots are?

Unlike smoking just the bullet to determine distance off the lands, you do the entire length to see where the interference is...

Make sure it is a DUMMY ROUND with no powder or primer...

Do everything the same as a loaded round except priming and charging...

How to smoke the cartridge starts about 2:15 in this vid...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAzflmJyL-k
 
"I full length resize everything 3rd firing. Let me know what you guys think."
Are you saying that you FL size everything and this is the 3rd reload? OR
Are you saying that you FL every 3rd reload(ASSuming you neck size the 1st and 2nd loading)?

I'd suggest testing the sized cases to make sure they fit the chamber BEFORE loading powder and bullets.
If your seating die has a crimp feature, you may be inadvertantly creating a slight bulge at the shoulder. Otherwise, you're either not sizing adequately(which would be discovered by test fitting the sized cases) or you have an interference at the bullet/leade juncture. The next item to check would be neck thickness-7 loadings is suspect.
 
I would suspect that you should FL size to bump the shoulders back .002" - .003". I think the head space is too tight.

I have had this problem and thanks to this sight it has been resolved.

Lets get more opinions on it.
 
To me, it sounds like you need to bump back the shoulder. When you FLR, is the die set up properly and just off the shell holder with the ram is up? Does the seated bullet have any marks after chambering indicating it's engaging the lands early?
 
Same story told a different way: Reloaders are told they should fire and neck size a case 5 times and then start over by full length sizing. And I say the more times the case is fired and sized the more difficult it is to size the case. Reloaders are told to start over by full length sizing and I always ask: How is that possible, the case has been fired at least 5 times?

I always suggest the reloader understand threads on the die and press, I believe the reloader should understand the flex in the press. There are times the case has more resistance to sizing than the press, die and lube can overcome. I suggest the reloader measure the gap between the bottom of the die and top of the shell holder when deterring the winner; did the press win or did the case win.

I have had cases that had more resistance to sizing than my press, die and case holder could overcome; what did I do? I screwed the die down an additional fraction of a turn and then there is case lube. I have a no name case lube that I use on the 'tuffest cases to size and or form'.

And then there is that time before the bolt would not close. I always save cases from the beginning because I want to know what the case looked like before the bolt would not close.

And then there is the feeler gage, I can not remember when I did not have a feeler gage, I have always called it the companion tool to the press.

F. Guffey
 
"...measured at the ogive..." Hi. OAL isn't measured at the ogive. It's measured from the pointy end to the flat end. Don't think it' is the length anyway though. Max OAL for a .308 Win with a 180(close enough to 178) is 2.800". You're likely a lot under that.
Far more likely that your FL die has come a tick loose. Assuming it hasn't been an issue before. Or you didn't quite operate the ram all the way up. Happens to all of us.
 
@Mobuck

There is a slight bulge at the bottom of the neck from neck sizing. I thought this was normal because of the direction brass flows when sizing. I wasnt having any issues with that bulge before. I neck size my brass after two firings, and do a full length resize every third firing.

The instructions I have for FL resizing is to bring the ram/shell holder all the way up, and to screw the die all the way down until there is contact. Then you back it off a quarter of a turn.

@TOHEIR

The OAL I am using is with a bullet compartor. I use the hornady OAL gauge, and place the projectile 10 thousands of an inch off the lands. The OAL measured at the tip is very inconsistant, especially when I use HPBT projectiles. I have had .008 variance with Lapua rounds
 
The instructions I have for FL resizing is to bring the ram/shell holder all the way up, and to screw the die all the way down until there is contact. Then you back it off a quarter of a turn.
Click to expand...


Then you back it off a quarter of a turn.
Click to expand...
And then 'YOU' back the die out 1/4 turn? I don't. If I back the die out 1/4 turn I am sizing cases for long chambers: I know, everyone is soooo confused. If I backed the die out I would be adjusting the die off the shell holder .017". A chamber that is long enough to require and additional .017" length between the shoulder of the chamber and bolt face is .003" longer than a field reject length chamber.

I have one chamber that requires a gap of .014" between the bottom of the die and top of the shell holder because the chamber is .002" longer than a field reject length chamber. For that chamber I use 280 Remington cases.

If I was sizing cases for a short chamber I would jack the case up off of the deck of the shell holder with a feeler gage. It requires more effort to size the short chamber cases because I am shoving more of the case head into the die. I avoid thick headed cases when forming cases for short chambers.

F. Guffey
 
This one's simple.

Screw the resizing die down to firmly contact the shellholder/ram;
Drop the ram;
Then screw the die down more by ~1/8 turn.

Try that on a few cases; test chamber them before going any further; and let us know.




postscript: Unless you are partially resizing those 3 times using a case headspace gauge to exactly size to your (previously-determined/just-fit case) headspace dimension); your cases are lengthening each time.

When you then screw the die down -- and then back off that 1/4 turn-- you are really lengthening the case even more due to squeezing the sides in/but not the shoulder down.
 
The OAL I am using is with a bullet compartor. I use the hornady OAL gauge, and place the projectile 10 thousands of an inch off the lands. The OAL measured at the tip is very inconsistant, especially when I use HPBT projectiles. I have had .008 variance with Lapua rounds
Click to expand...

Not me, I am the fan of the running start, I want my bullets to have that 'jump'. When I am talking about case lengths I am talking about the length from the datum/shoulder to the case head. And then there is that part about the ojive; I am the fan of transferring the dimensions of the chamber to the seating die. No Hornady/Sinclair take it out and seat then measure, then adjust and put it back into the shell holder and etc. I make the transfer, place itinto the shell holder, raise the ram and then adjust the seating die for .00000" (zero) off the lands.

F. Guffey
 
Do you use a case headspace gage to check your loaded rounds? Yes you can just check in the rifle if its a bolt gun, but sometimes a gauge may help you see the problem. In my opinion it still helps to measure cartridge OAL (or average thereof) with a caliper for another reference from specs.

With the Hornady tool you can get a bushing and measure the case headspace of resized cases and compare them to fired cases from the chamber and new brass. At 7 firings even Lapua brass will show signs of use. As stated your shoulders likely need to be bumped back farther, or brass is flowing and thickening the neck. The correct gage can allow you to determine how far to bump back the shoulders and set your dies accordingly. Mileage for different rifle or situations can be different, but be ready for the possibility that your brass may be nearing its useful life.

Another good tool is the Hornady (formerly Stoney Point) OAL gauge for measure at what OAL the bullet is really touching the lands.

http://www.6mmbr.com/catalog/item/1433308/977259.htm
 
Bump the shoulders!

I tried the neck sizing with my Ruger Americans (223/270/243/30-06) and it just didn't work (chamber) consistently.

I full length size now
 
Reloading for me is simpler than for other reloaders; my cases do not have head space, it is my chamber that has head space. And then there are case gages, I feel very comfortable using case gages, again using a case gage simplifies reloading if the user understands straight edges and feeler gages.

And then there are chamber gages; I am the fan of chamber gages, I know, that sounds expensive; not for me. I have purchased shot out barrels and (believe it or not) I have been given barrel that 'just would not shoot (?)'.

And, again I save new unfired loaded ammo for JIC, that would be just in case I have sized cases that will not allow the bolt to close. There is nothing like comparing a case that will not allow the bolt to close with a case that will allow the bolt to close. And then there is nothing like measuring before and again after.

F. Guffey
 
And then there is bump as in bump the shoulder. I find bumping the shoulder to be impossible, to bump the shoulder with out case body support upsets the case body starting at the shoulder/case body juncture. If the reloader continues to bump the shoulder the case body is turned into a bellows/accordion looking thing. So I can not bump the shoulder without bumping everything on the case including the neck, shoulder and case body.

I do have bump presses, my pump presses bump twice, once on the way up and again on the way down because my bump presses are cam over presses. I would consider having doubts about bumping if I did not have RCBS press instructions. One set covers cam over presses and another set covers non cam over presses.

F. Guffey
 
....cases do not have head space...
Click to expand...
DeJa Vu all over again.
Cases have a headspace dimension, no less than chambers have a headspace dimension.
(and the case dimension need to be a just few thou less than the chamber dimension)

That is all....
Smoke if ya got`em.
;)
 
There is a slight bulge at the bottom of the neck from neck sizing. I thought this was normal because of the direction brass flows when sizing. I wasnt having any issues with that bulge before. I neck size my brass after two firings, and do a full length resize every third firing.
Click to expand...

Is that "slight bulge" at the bottom of the neck there after resizing, and before loading and seating a bullet?. In my experience, a bulge like that is from the taper crimp in your seating die. Back the die out a few turns, then reset the seating plunger to your desired OAL.

I don't crimp any bottleneck cases.
 
Cases have a headspace dimension, no less than chambers have a headspace dimension.
Click to expand...

Do not call SAMMI, it puts them the awkward position of agreeing with everyone. The chamber has head space, when measuring the length of the case and length of the chamber a few reloaders are left with clearance. I off set the length of the chamber with the length of the case. I know, it sounds impressive when a member uses 'head space' multiple times as in the chamber has head space and the case has head space and every gage is a head space gage. A case gage is not a head space gage and the Digital Head space gage is a comparator and then there is the Hornady/Sinclair tool.

A case has minimum length, and then reloaders have nothing to compare the length of the case with. I measure the length of the chamber from the shoulder to the bolt face first and then I compare. After comparing I determine clearance, I am the fan of cutting down on all that case travel, I off set case travel with the length of the case from the shoulder to the case head.

Again, SAAMI does not include a case head space symbol on their drawings because the case does not have head space. I know, when selling tools to reloaders the sell is easier when they believe they are purchasing head space gages. If I am using a case gage I have no problem calling it a case gage. And then there are chamber gages, I make chamber gages, I use chamber gages to determine the length of a case from the case shoulder to the case head. It helps when using a chamber gage to know the length of the chamber from the shoulder to the bolt face.

And then one of those 'and then' moments; The chamber gage does not work with fired cases; with exceptions. I have two rifles with magnificent chambers, cases fired in those rifles will fit the chamber gages with slight thumb pressure.

F. Guffey
 
There is a slight bulge at the bottom of the neck from neck sizing. I thought this was normal because of the direction brass flows when sizing
Click to expand...

There was a time when I asked about stretch and or flow, and then I asked if it was stretch and or flow and then I gave up because I could not find a reloader that could keep up with all of the events between the firing pin hitting the primmer and the bullet leaving the case.

Seems they got driven to the curb thinking the case, bullet and powder was driven to the shoulder of the chamber before anything happened. And I said think about it.

I would suggest you identify the dies you are using, the bulge at the shoulder neck juncture could be caused by 'the dreaded donut'. There is no answer for that problem, I have always said the donut was caused by bad habits.

F. Guffey
 
I think I have figured it out. I purchased the hornady headspace gauge to measure my brass before/after firing. My unfired Lapua brass measured on average 1.620, and my fired brass measured 1.622.

I am using the redding competition neck die/seater die. I don't think the neck die was being used correctly. I was sizing only half the neck, leaving the shoulder untouched. After repeated firings the should ended up growing a few thousandths of an inch, causing the bolt to not be able to close. I lowered the micrometer lower, and was able to bump the shoulder back.

I took my unloaded cases, and was able to chamber them no problem.
 
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