Israel Planning Attack on Iran
- Thread starter Hard Ball
- Start date
cloudcroft
New member
Someoldguy,
New Flash: The Israeli military IS horribly inept nowadays...theirs is like ours!
Fault "leadership" for that though.
-- John D.
New Flash: The Israeli military IS horribly inept nowadays...theirs is like ours!
Fault "leadership" for that though.
-- John D.
Our military isn't inept and neither is Israel's. Don't confuse bowing to political pressure by politicians on both sides with the prowess of either military unit. If given a mission to complete and allowed to actually do what is necessary to complete it, Israels military is great and ours is the best.
**just noticed that Cloud was blaming leadership. Sorry I had an aneurysm after the first part LOL*
**just noticed that Cloud was blaming leadership. Sorry I had an aneurysm after the first part LOL*
mooreshawnm
New member
Generals must be confirmed by congress...news flash guys: our generals (and therefore military leadership) are politicians. They just wear a uniform instead of a suit. Do you think there are any Patton's left? No. They would never make it in todays service! Our military IS inept. Just wait until we have to stand up and fight someone serious and you will see just how weak we have become.
Blackwater OPS
New member
Sadly, coming from a former active duty soldier and current reservist who has been deployed twice, IT IS. The "female man" syndrome sweeping this country, in addition to a military which has been streched past the breaking point so that basic training is a joke and soldiers complete it who never should have, has given us an Army at the level of the vietnam draft era. Soldiers coming out of basic now have NO dicipline, NO training, and NO common sense.
Don't believe me?
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=ab60662ad6
And yes, that soldier does have an ND almost blowing his battle buddy's knee off, then when told to be careful by his blubbering idiot supervisor he says "F**K it." The baddy buddy is oblivious, apparently still trying to remember SPORTS.
Our military isnt inept. They can beat the dogsnot out of whatever the insurgents throw at them force on force. What is inept and broken is the political leadership inside the beltway that doesn't give the military the resources nor the firm objectives of what they want achieved. You can make any plan you want, if you dont resource it properly you will fail. If you dont have a firm misssion objective as in the Powell Doctrine this is what happens. If the civilian leadership gives you your marching orders and little leeway to carry them out all you can do is salute and say three bags full, sir. Then play damage control in Iraq.
Once the political leadership realizes what fourth generation warfare is and what you need to fight it some headway might be made in Iraq. The best plan I have heard would be to pull all the American troops out of Baghdad tell the Iraqis we got your back on the border. Baghdad is now your problem, fix it yourself. Fear would be a great motivator for the Iraqi Government. There comes a time when you must let your child ride without the training wheels. Looking at the Iraqi political leadership at the present time some great motivator is needed to get them to fix the problem. The majority of the provinces are fairly stable in Iraq. Its the 20% that are causing the majority of problems there. The Iraqis are the best solution for getting that 20% to toe the line or to take them out.
Once the political leadership realizes what fourth generation warfare is and what you need to fight it some headway might be made in Iraq. The best plan I have heard would be to pull all the American troops out of Baghdad tell the Iraqis we got your back on the border. Baghdad is now your problem, fix it yourself. Fear would be a great motivator for the Iraqi Government. There comes a time when you must let your child ride without the training wheels. Looking at the Iraqi political leadership at the present time some great motivator is needed to get them to fix the problem. The majority of the provinces are fairly stable in Iraq. Its the 20% that are causing the majority of problems there. The Iraqis are the best solution for getting that 20% to toe the line or to take them out.
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This: "Camel jockeys"
And this: "Camel lovers"
Some one please tell me how calling all Muslims "camel jockeys" and "camel lovers" lends to the discussion at hand? Since when do we lump an entire segment of mankind into the same category as those who are rattling their sabers in Iran?
I'm danged tired of threads being closed because of the behaviors of one or two people. This discussion stays on track or there will be less members to discuss it.
And this: "Camel lovers"
Some one please tell me how calling all Muslims "camel jockeys" and "camel lovers" lends to the discussion at hand? Since when do we lump an entire segment of mankind into the same category as those who are rattling their sabers in Iran?
I'm danged tired of threads being closed because of the behaviors of one or two people. This discussion stays on track or there will be less members to discuss it.
mooreshawnm
New member
'Since when do we lump an entire segment of mankind into the same category as those who are rattling their sabers in Iran?'
Hmm interesting question...I am glad that you asked.
How about 1941 when the United States began unrestricted submarine warfare and eventually a strategic bombing campaign over Germany and Japan resulting in the first and only use of nukes against a foe. All in response to an attitude (hostility, expansionism, genocide ect ect) pushed by a few in the leadership caste but allowed to continue by their respective populations. I am not trying to pick a fight with you Antipitas, on the contrary I find your posts to be well thought out and insightful on the whole. However it is exactly this attitude of weakness that has resulted in the situation we are in today....IMHO. Oh and we experienced total and undeniable victory in that one.
Back on subject. If Iran is not stopped soon they will develope the bomb. When they do that it will be to late to stop them and eventually one of our cities will be reduced to radioactive ash. When we are discussing the possible destruction of one or more American cities by another state (at best) or a terrorist group (worst case) I find the attempt to keep conversations clean and wholesome some what comical. As I am an American the fate of Israel is of secondary importance to the fate of the US, however as they are our only friend in that part of the world I feel inclined to assist them to the hilt. If they are incapable of action then we should step up to the plate and get it done.
Shawn
Hmm interesting question...I am glad that you asked.
How about 1941 when the United States began unrestricted submarine warfare and eventually a strategic bombing campaign over Germany and Japan resulting in the first and only use of nukes against a foe. All in response to an attitude (hostility, expansionism, genocide ect ect) pushed by a few in the leadership caste but allowed to continue by their respective populations. I am not trying to pick a fight with you Antipitas, on the contrary I find your posts to be well thought out and insightful on the whole. However it is exactly this attitude of weakness that has resulted in the situation we are in today....IMHO. Oh and we experienced total and undeniable victory in that one.
Back on subject. If Iran is not stopped soon they will develope the bomb. When they do that it will be to late to stop them and eventually one of our cities will be reduced to radioactive ash. When we are discussing the possible destruction of one or more American cities by another state (at best) or a terrorist group (worst case) I find the attempt to keep conversations clean and wholesome some what comical. As I am an American the fate of Israel is of secondary importance to the fate of the US, however as they are our only friend in that part of the world I feel inclined to assist them to the hilt. If they are incapable of action then we should step up to the plate and get it done.
Shawn
I am in full support of Israel. They have been bullied by all of the countries around them and it is time they fight back. I also agree with Blackwater's stance on men coming into the military. Yes, not all of the men going into the U.S. military are feminine, but many of them are. I can tell you that many from my age group (17-21) are becoming increasingly feminine. They are more worried about their ipods and tight t-shirts than serving our great country. I hope to join the military once I am old enough.
I hope to join the military once I am old enough.
The fate of Israel is very important to the economic health of the United States. The United States has a lot of money invested in Israel.
The weakness lies within the elected political leadership. That same weakness was present within the elected leadership then. Its a system fault within our type of government. They were willing to nuke Japan but were unwilling to take on Russia. Lets even go back to the War of 1812 when they burned our capitol. I would say there was some weakness there. What about our weakness with Korea?
It is built into the system. We also have our strengths as a nation that counterbalance that. Weakness is a by product of democracy. The passion to hold on to freedom is also a by product of our system.
After all who wants to live under a strong government if you have no freedoms and are subservient to the state.
The weakness lies within the elected political leadership. That same weakness was present within the elected leadership then. Its a system fault within our type of government. They were willing to nuke Japan but were unwilling to take on Russia. Lets even go back to the War of 1812 when they burned our capitol. I would say there was some weakness there. What about our weakness with Korea?
It is built into the system. We also have our strengths as a nation that counterbalance that. Weakness is a by product of democracy. The passion to hold on to freedom is also a by product of our system.
After all who wants to live under a strong government if you have no freedoms and are subservient to the state.
Blackwater OPS
New member
More and more people in this country everyday. That's what they basically teach in public schools now. Also almost ALL far right Republicans and far left Democrats which together have a majority. Lucky for us they usually cannot agree on what the government should be telling us to do.
Iran's ancestors, the Persians, developed the game we now call chess, a game build around deceit, strategy, and snipe hunts.
Iran is building a nuclear capability. That is not mean Iran does not have nuclear weapons. Matter of fact, I can't think of a better way of deceiving the west than by drawing attention to the development of home grown weapons all the while having secured operational soviet era nukes. I don't think Israel has been suckered. Not too sure about the US. It wouldn't be the first time the US grossly underestimated an enemy's capability.
Iran is building a nuclear capability. That is not mean Iran does not have nuclear weapons. Matter of fact, I can't think of a better way of deceiving the west than by drawing attention to the development of home grown weapons all the while having secured operational soviet era nukes. I don't think Israel has been suckered. Not too sure about the US. It wouldn't be the first time the US grossly underestimated an enemy's capability.
Slugthrower
New member
We all must have plans to defend ourselves from the individual man up to the country scale. I personally think that nukes are equivalent to having a hand grenade for self defence. Just a bit much except for the rare extreme circumstance. Israel sure seems to be in need of them.
Attacking is not defence. But who can take a few nukes in strategic areas and defend themselves effectively anyway? I digress...
Sad that today, we have to police a world that we have become interdependent in. Seems that we must involve ourselves in affairs of other countries in order to preserve our way of life. I think this was never meant to be. The founders would have been wiser about involvement in foreign wars. I suppose we must be re-enlightened as to why they arrived at that conclusion. We keep forgetting our history and will repeat it with less forgiving consequences as nuclear technology proliferates.
Pray for Israels' well being.
Attacking is not defence. But who can take a few nukes in strategic areas and defend themselves effectively anyway? I digress...
Sad that today, we have to police a world that we have become interdependent in. Seems that we must involve ourselves in affairs of other countries in order to preserve our way of life. I think this was never meant to be. The founders would have been wiser about involvement in foreign wars. I suppose we must be re-enlightened as to why they arrived at that conclusion. We keep forgetting our history and will repeat it with less forgiving consequences as nuclear technology proliferates.
Pray for Israels' well being.