Is using an aggressive tone of voice a good tactic for police officers?

Status
Not open for further replies.
Erik said:
How many officers in the pertinent jurisdiction act in the manner you describe
Click to expand...

Wisconsin is one of those areas where if you drive ten or fifteen minutes outside of Madison or Milwaukee you are in farm country. In fact, if I drive a short stretch of Hwy 19 to get to the four/six lane highway leading to a big Harley dealer in Sauk City, the entire drive is rural.

Some little burgs have found it easier to simply disband their city police forces and use county sheriffs.

Old Sportster gas tanks held 2.2 gallons of fuel. Before they needed a refill, you could actually be in towns like Mayberry and see cops that make Barney Fife look like a Quantico graduate. Not every jurisdiction has all of the toys and personnel of a CSI television show.

Stumbling across these idiots is simply a fact of life.

About a year ago we had a nineteen year old sheriff shoot and kill several of his friends at a party over some childish teenage fit of pique. Trust me, the Fife family lives on.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/li...ews.html?in_article_id=486260&in_page_id=1811
 
Every contact is different. Every officer is different. Every shift is different.

No hard and fast rule covers all here.

I find it odd that you specifically mention the CHP. I've had at least 3 contacts with CHP during my years of driving, I've received a total of one citation, but deserved far more.

I've always found the CHP officers I've dealt with to be among the most professional officers I've ever met. Always polite, always smiled.

Is it possible you are not passing the "attitude test"?

Here's a few simple tips.

Pull over immediately, don't keep going hoping it's someone else.

When stopped, don't fidget. Keep your hands on the wheel and look straight ahead.

Roll down all the windows in your car to give the approaching officer a good view of the interior. If at night, turn all inside lights on.

Be polite and answer all questions honestly. Don't cop a negative attitude or argue.

Don't BS. They've heard it all.

I have had some bad contacts with officers form local departments. Still, I don't give them any guff. For all I know they just had to scrape a little kid off the road and notify the parents.

Unless there is outright abuse of authority and or a violation of my rights, I don't beef them. I've had bad days too and I've been a jerk when it wasn't warranted.

In all my years I've never had a contact with a LEO that was any worse than the little prick that pissed me off at Blockbuster yesterday.
 
scorpiusdeus said:
Every contact if different. Every officer is different. Every shift is different. No hard and fast rule covers all here.
Click to expand...

Sure it does. My enumerated rights trump your badge, your attitude, your "feelings" or the rough day your wife gave you.

I am a citizen of the USA, and frankly, I could give a crap about your ego and "command voice."

Give me the ticket, I'll sign it. But save the windmill fuel for somebody who cares.

As for "BS," I've heard it all before, myself. I've heard it on Adam-12, Hawaii 5-0, Full Metal Jacket, CSI...

My "job" as a citizen is not to make the tresspass on my rights an easy job for your shift. Your job is to make community policing conform to the statutues and enumerated rights as written. Unless you have a specially drafted Writ of Mandamus in your BDUs, signed by a judge, giving you magical powers to circumvent The Constitution, save me from the dinner theater.

Treat me with respect, state the charges, give me the ticket to sign.

You will be amazed that I will say "Thank you." I will tell my friends you are a decent cop and you will have built more bridges within the community than twenty Rambos.
 
Well tourist, you can have a very bad contact with a law enforcement officer and never have your rights violated. It happens every day.

See, I'm speaking to folks who might just have forgotten to fasten their seatbelt, or maybe they were unaware they were 7 miles over the speed limit. Decent people who just made a little mistake. Many officer will just remind you of the law and send you on your way. No citation, all rights in tact.

Then there is the guy who cops an attitude, the officer might, as you say, have had his wife treat him like crap. Maybe he doesn't smile and maybe he's a little firm with you. You decide he's being a jerk and treat him like a jerk. all within your rights. The officer, with in his rights in in keeping with his job description decided to cite you for the seatbelt, the driving in excess of the posted speed limit and the missing rear view mirror that fell off a week ago while YOU were having a bad day. He gives you your citation, you get to pay it or fight it after taking a day off work only to loose in court, but boy you showed him. Didn't put up with his unfriendly behavior did you. Everyone leaves, rights in tact.

Yes, you have your rights, and the officer has his.

Knock yourself out.

I'm trying to give some folks what I think is good advice. If you disagree you can give that little speech the every officer, deputy, and patrolman you encounter. No skin off my nose.

You have a fine day sir. :D
 
scorpiusdeus said:
Well tourist, you can have a very bad contact with a law enforcement officer and never have your rights violated.
Click to expand...

Oh, I agree with every word you have written. This debate centers on the issue of a "command voice," a totally worthless idea that might get somebody killed.

Professional officers never use it. They don't have to. Period.

Let me demonstrate this. Turn-about.

Let's say you come to our Harley dealership on a Saturday. The place will be packed.

In your visit, you meet a guy drenched in leather, swaggering, smartin' off to the girls, dazzling about his mileage, his friends in The Angels, and the tremendous speeds he has driven a bike.

Do you think you have met me?

Of course not. Mileage. Pfffp. Dig up my oil-change invoices, I don't have to brag about anything.

As usual, I'm in the breakroom, dining on free tube-steaks, laughing with the other graybeards because we've had decades of fun and we all know it.

In fact, if you buy a new Sportster, it will be one of us who walks out into the parking lot and gives you a few suggestions. It's not going to be one of us who uses our "command voice" and berates you for being a newb or a poser. (We save those epithets for the guy drenched in leather.)

And how will you treat us? How will you relate this story to your wife when you get home?

You'll say to her, "Hey, I met some bikers today..."

Same with me. When I get home, I do the same thing, I tell my wife about my day.

"Hey, dear, I was a cruisin' a bit fast today on the bike, and I got a ticket. Met a cop I've never seen before. He was a nice guy...
 
You can always escalate your tone or volume, but it is hard to go backwards. If you start out with a lot of 'bluster' you are stuck with it. There are times however that you start out with the "Command Voice" at top volume and let everyone know who is in charge.
 
"Be polite, professional, and have a plan to kill everyone in front of you."

So it's been said, and there's truth there.

I'm only a lowly reserve LEO, but I want everyone to understand, through verbal and non-verbal communication, that I/we are in charge, make no mistake about it. The person stopped or being FI'd gets to choose, by their actions or demeanor, where things go. Easy begets easy, hard begets harder. Stern voice and words are part of the force continuum, and it goes up from there. My $.02

Dear Tourist,

About a year ago we had a nineteen year old sheriff shoot and kill several of his friends at a party over some childish teenage fit of pique. Trust me, the Fife family lives on.
Click to expand...

A very unfortunate incident, to be sure. As I recall, and it's been a few months since reading, they didn't do a good job screening that kid for emotional stability. Though we let kids be soldiers at 18 or 19, I believe it's too young to be a cop...not enough direct supervision. The scientific evidence is that the frontal lobes of males don't finish developing until the age of 21-22, iirc, meaning "men" under that age are mentally underdeveloped, literally.
 
My two cents...

I don't think I have had any contact with the police in well over 10 years.

I had a new work vehicle and I guess he thought I was going a little fast.
Kind of funny considering how fast people drive on I-95 in South Florida.

I behaved in a very non-threatening way and was treated politely.

Some encounters for traffic offenses in my teens and early 20's weren't as
pleasant but my attitude could have contributed to it.

(One in Philly had me looking down the business end of a gun!)
I was cut off by a cop and I pulled off and away. All of a sudden his unmarked car started aggressively following me. Not knowing he was a cop, I took
evasive measures to get away, thinking he was a nut. The very second he hit the lights, I pulled over, stopped and had my hands in plain sight on the steering wheel.
He comes up to the car with his gun pointed at me! (A 1st for me!)

I explained that I did not realize he was a police officer.
He made a big production and took my license and told me to follow him to the main police station (strange). He got another call, gave me my license back and went on his way.

I think that usually, if you, as a citizen, act courteously and non-threatening, it will be returned.

BTW, one of my neighbors is a retired cop. He is one of the most soft spoken
people I have met. He is not tall, just kind of solid.

He told me his ability to verbally defuse situations was good enough that
he never had to shoot or Taser anyone in his career.

Then there are people in my community (as seen on Cops!) who
continue to talk on the cel phone when a police officer has repeatedly issued her an order
to put the phone down and exit the vehicle.

If you are not going to comply and show the police respect, you better be ready for the consequences. In her case, several requests to put the
cell phone down were ignored and she got Tasered.

Just be cool and treat the police with respect and you will be fine, IMHO.
 
Oh, I agree with every word you have written. This debate centers on the issue of a "command voice," a totally worthless idea that might get somebody killed.

Professional officers never use it. They don't have to. Period.
Click to expand...

Sir, you are simply wrong. Well, maybe if you ARE from Mayberry that might apply, but if I pull down an ally at 01:00 hours and come upon 5 MS13 bangers stripping a BMW, I can assure you the first words out of my mouth are not going to be "hey fellas, what's up, may I please see some I.D."?

Some of these guys have done a nickel or more up at the gladiator academy and are using every second to determine if they can 1) run 2) overpower me or 3) drawn down and fire on me.

I can assure you that the Mr Rogers approach will only encourage them to make a move faster than being drawn down on and being told in my best drill instructor voice that they need to get on their knees, cross their legs, hands on their heads facing away from me until backup arrives.

In MANY situations your idea might apply, but to say "never" shows a certain Utopian naiveté

As I read you are a bike rider, I can sort of understand your point of view. I'm very aware of the propensity for various LEOs to immediately assume anyone on a Harley is a felon on probation. A large number of motorcycle riders in an area is immediately seen as a biker gang blowing into town.

I don't see that much around here. Most of our "biker gangs" consist of teachers, lawyers, doctors, business owners just enjoying the freedom of cruising down the road with the wind in their face. The vast majority of LEOs here understand that. Even the occasional HA or Mongol doesn't kick up much fuss in these parts.
 
Having represented some of these "lads in motorcycle clubs," I second what Tourist says. I'll look for your answer in 6-8 month after your broken bones heal and your jaw is unwired.

Having said that, I have represented Mongols, Outlaws, and Bandidos for wrecks, they or family members, were involved in. Contrary to the A&E specials that seem to air every week, I found them to be great clients. They are respectful of my legal assistants and support staff, show up for appointments, and usually are a pleasure to represent. The fact they tend to be repeat clients and seem to go out of their way to refer friends and family members is an added bonus.
 
So they are respectful murderous, rapist, drug dealers, thieves and burglars?

You are apparently very naive, counselor. There's a reason that Angels, Mongols, Outlaws, and Bandidos kill the people who attempt to leave. But, all's well so long as you get your cut, right?
 
JB Books said:
They are respectful of my legal assistants and support staff
Click to expand...

And there's an obvious reason for that. We are "just guys" who ride motorcycles. We react as treated. We don't suffer fools.

Besides, the guys who are drenched in leather are not much of a concern. They're nothing to worry about, they're playing dress-up.

And you want to know the dirty little secret? They are dressing up in the manner in which I dressed in the 1960's. They believe our clothes and ideals are frozen in time.

To make my point in this debate, let me relate a common occurance. Let's say I'm out for dinner with my wife in a cage. A friend of mine might see a bike and what to look and schmooze with the rider. Sometimes they express caution.

I take them over to the bike, introduce myself and tell the guy I'd like info on the bike. What follows is about ten minutes of friendly conversation. One time the biker and I showed each other pictures of our lap dogs.

Now apply that idea to this debate.

Unless the biker is doing something like pitching a juke-box through a plate glass window (yeah, it happens) he's probably sitting on his keester having a brew and chatting up a delightful young lady.

If he's rioting, then arrest him. If he's hustling a girl then your "command voice" makes you a Fife.

Our culture might be different, but our needs and wants under our enumerate rights are identical and your job description as a sworn officer does not change.
 
Nemoaz are you using your commanding voice now?

Oh yes, I am Pollyana. The world is a bright and sunny place.

What I was referring to was my own experience with some of these folks while representing them for personal injury cases. I have no illusions they are choir boys and some may very well have been convicted of a crime. I don't care, if they are the victims of an accident caused by someone else's negligence, they have the same right to seek legal redress as anyone else.
Not my place to set myself up to think I am better or worse than anyone else unless either I have specific knowledge or experience about an individual. Also, my job is not to be anyone's moral compass.

Quite frankly, some of these guys and their families are a hell of a lot easier to deal with than some so-called religious people who praise Jesus on their answering machines, only to cuss at my staff and malingerer thinking that their wreck is a lottery ticket. I actually had one Bible college grad tell me Jesus told her she would get rich through her wreck. She later called one of my legal assistants an obscene name because we refused to put the arm on a doctor to write her a script more more pain meds.

And yes, all is well as long as I get my cut. The bigger, the better.
 
Some of these guys have done a nickel or more up at the gladiator academy and are using every second to determine if they can 1) run 2) overpower me or 3) drawn down and fire on me.
Click to expand...

Interesting point, sir. Anyone who's spent time on the street in hardcore gang territory knows this. Of course, the libs will accusing you of "profiling" when instead, it's good police work and knowing your "clientele". While you can't assume someone you stop, who looks like John or Mary Q. Citizen, isn't instead a bankrobber, or just murdered their spouse or whatever, you can often identify the hardcore BGs immediately. The "wannabes" and lookalikes have to prove themselves otherwise, but are treated with extreme caution until then, a choice they've made for themselves by mode of dress and demeanor.

The best cops I've known exude self-confidence without being cocky, authority without being authoritarian, strength through strong presence, and tell their contacts "I am in charge now. We can take this to any level you choose" and maintain control and prevail, using the appropriate level of force and be totally professional the whole time. The people who accuse them of being "jackbooted thugs" have issues...some people just hate any kind of authority, no matter how professional. That's a hard way to go through life.
 
Having said that, I have represented Mongols, Outlaws, and Bandidos for wrecks, they or family members, were involved in.
Click to expand...

Even criminal have rights, of course. I just don't like outlaw bikers, period. The biggest organized crime group in Canada, for example, is the Hell's Angels. The Bandidos and Mongols, et al, are what they are...criminal gangs, no debate. Maybe your clients have been polite and well-paying, but in the end they are still criminal scumbags, and I couldn't be a defense lawyer or represent them for that reason. My personal blind spot. I don't like criminals, great clients or not, though I do understand they have the right to redress if wronged. Someone else would have to represent them other than me, I think.

I do hear you, re: your other examples of bad clients. I'm sorry some of them call themselves "Christian" when they behave like that; they are not. Christians--and I call myself one--are never perfect, but there are too many hypocrites in the world, and too many Christians among them. Of course, we are commanded to "love our neighbor" even if they are Hell's Angels...no easy task. Hate the sin, love the sinner. They will he judged by a higher authority than Man's Law, I believe, and I wouldn't want to be them. Those who work in prison ministry have my admiration, working with the worst of the worst.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top