Is three day wait for handgun universal?

We had a short spell when our county issued, state valid CCP was considered good enough to buy a gun.
Then it was noted that a sheriffette was not doing thorough background checks in her county, so it is back to NICS for all of us in the state.
 
Here in NC we have a an additional barrier of requiring a handgun permit from the county sheriff for every single handgun purchase (even private sale). So for the general plebes, that's two background checks: one from the sheriff's office (which can take a day to a few weeks, depending on the sheriff) and another from NICS at the gun store.

However, if you have a NC concealed handgun license, that not only meets the need for the handgun permit, but also the NICS check. I can walk in, buy a handgun and be out of the store as fast as it takes to present my CCL and driver's license (they make a copy of both), fill out the 4473 and pay for my purchase.
 
There is no federal law requiring a delay. Those are all state or local laws.

As others have alluded to, there is a period of 3 business days, after which, if the NICS check does not produce a definitive answer, the dealer may choose to complete the sale. This ensures the government may not deny sales via refusing to answer background checks in a timely (ish) manner.
 
I noticed in a news blurb today that various anti gun activist groups are again pushing for waiting periods, and, if the news is to be believed, the idea is gaining traction with some members of Congress.

I feel pretty sure this is because of the passage of time, and a new generation of people who either don't know history, or are deliberately willing to break past agreements to implement outdated ideas that failed or were discarded, confident that this time they can "do it right".

Back before the "instant check law" some states had waiting periods (usually only on handguns) and most did not. The original background check law proposals included a mandatory national waiting period.

A lot of people opposed this. Enough so it made passing the law problematic. In a rare move, the anti's offered a concession. They agreed to drop the waiting period requirement, if we would support the "instant check" when it became technically possible.
And so, a deal was made. Though part of the deal meant including long guns in the instant check system as well as handguns, we avoided a national waiting period. At the time it seemed reasonable, as our primary objection was not against the background check itself, but against the burdensome waiting period requirement.

Now we have a new generation (and some of the old one still left) who seem either ignorant of, or willing to break the deal that allowed passage of the Brady bill (instant check) in 1993. No, it wasn't something put on paper as a binding contract, but it was a "gentleman's agreement" both sides agreed to and until now adhered to. We let you implement the background check on all firearms, you don't force a waiting period on us. That was the deal, and now, they are pushing for waiting periods, which to my mind, is going back on their word and breaking the deal.

Once again, they are trotting out the old argument that a waiting period is a "cooling off" period, so that someone can't just buy a gun and then go out and commit murder (or any other crime) with it. They assume that a waiting period of 3 days, or 10, or whatever number they decide on will force the potential murderer to wait and reflect on their decision and possibly they will reconsider and not do violence against others.

This assumption might actually work with some small numbers, but we'll never know, there's no way to know, people who were thinking of murder and reconsider don't let the world know that. There's no statistics that can be made into a database and used for talking points, there's no evidence available at all. All there is, is the assumption and supposition that crimes that didn't happen are the result of the waiting period. It's BS.

Another point to consider, about the waiting period, and for that matter background checks in general, while there is a slim possibility of them actually having an effect on someone buying their first gun, they cannot have any effect preventing violence done by someone who already has a gun(s).

In effect they impose burdens and restrictions on all gun buyers, every time, but can only have the claimed preventative ability on first time gun buyers.

Why should anyone have to wait and/or be checked on the 2nd (or 22nd) gun purchase?? If they are going to do murder, they already have a gun to use, what can any waiting period or background check do to prevent that?

Nothing
Nada
Nichts
Zip

Its a boondoggle, its BS, its a red herring, its a feel good about doing something "solution" that cannot and will not work as claimed and its only possible use is that when it fails, when someone "slips through the cracks" and does murder the anti's will use it as their example of not going far enough.

If the point is, as they claim, to keep guns out of the hands of the wrong people, then since I already have a gun, have broken no laws, am I not then automatically the "right people"? why should I have to wait and be checked to prove it, every single time I buy another gun???

They are using the recent massage parlor shooting as their current banner, to push for waiting periods to be enacted into national law.

I cannot conceive of someone who has decided to commit mass murder changing their mind and abandoning the idea because they couldn't get a gun on the 15th and had to wait until the 19th to go on a killing spree. Can you??
 
How long do the criminals have to wait for their weapons, and what measures are being taken by the feds to specifically address and focus on criminals -vs- law-abiding citizens?
 
FunGramps said:
How long do the criminals have to wait for their weapons,...

While you may have intended this as a rhetorical device, that involves a real issue in state red flag laws. Where a law allows a person's means of effective defense to be confiscated on nothing more than a complaint, he is deprived of a fundamental right without due process.

A mandatory waiting period is not due process, or any legal process at all.

FunGramps said:
... and what measures are being taken by the feds to specifically address and focus on criminals -vs- law-abiding citizens?

Is there any part of the federal regulation of possession that federal regulation has made better without first having made it worse?

The evanescence of the waiting period when instant checks were introduced was an improvement, but it only cured the waiting period. Should a misdemeanor domestic violence conviction mean that you need to spend the rest of your life relying on a telephone and police willingness to respond if you have a problem with a malevolent character?
 
raimius There is no federal law requiring a delay. Those are all state or local laws.
The Brady Law (a federal law) does not allow the dealer to transfer the firearm until the MDI date unless he receives a proceed status before that date. That's a delay.


As others have alluded to, there is a period of 3 business days, after which, if the NICS check does not produce a definitive answer, the dealer may choose to complete the sale. This ensures the government may not deny sales via refusing to answer background checks in a timely (ish) manner.
And right here is where you disagreed with your first paragraph.;)
 
FunGramps How long do the criminals have to wait for their weapons, and what measures are being taken by the feds to specifically address and focus on criminals -vs- law-abiding citizens?
I caught a buyer lying on his 4473 once.
He filled it out, was denied on his NICS check. I gave him the appeal info. Many months later I found out he had not started the appeal process. I told him I would begin charging a storage fee on his pistol, hoping that would spur him into action. It kinda did.

Four months later I call him to see what the status of his appeal and he tells me he had received it the month before. He brings the FBI appeal document that explains his deferred adjudication terms are removed and his NICS denial overturned. Seems he was under indictment the day he filled out that 4473.:eek: He lied on the 4473, which is a felony.

I called my ATF IOI and asked how to proceed.........."transfer the gun, the US Attorney Office doesn't take those types of charges". Wow.

That's the problem with laws, if you don't enforce what laws you do have, then making new ones is every bit as unneeded.
 
44 AMP said:
In effect they impose burdens and restrictions on all gun buyers, every time, but can only have the claimed preventative ability on first time gun buyers.
First time gun buyers who are law-abiding citizens (except for contemplating murder) who either won't, or aren't in a position to, just go buy a gun on a dark street corner late at night.
 
No problems here in Central Ohio. Hand over the dl, fill out the 4473 and done. Takes me approx. 30 minutes from the time I've walked in the door at the LGS to finishing up and heading home with a new gun.
 
At one time when Biden was VP, he was "caught" by a reporter in a hallway and asked, point blank, why the Fed govt did so little to prosecute people who lied (and so broke the law) when trying to buy a gun.

His obvious off the cuff answer was probably honest, he gave a dismissive hand wave and stated "We don't have time for that".

I wonder what he does have time for, now that he's President....
:rolleyes:
 
The Brady Law (a federal law) does not allow the dealer to transfer the firearm until the MDI date unless he receives a proceed status before that date. That's a delay.
Then, I assume, you are intentionally misconstruing the National "Instant" Check System as the same thing as a legal minimum time (such as proposed 3 or 10 day waits). Clearly, these are different things, and the latter is what the OP was asking about.
 
I called my ATF IOI and asked how to proceed.........."transfer the gun, the US Attorney Office doesn't take those types of charges". Wow.

I had a few attempted straw purchases over the years. Each time, I contacted the local office, and the ATF told me it was an issue for the sheriff. When I contacted the sheriff, they told me it was an issue for the ATF. I'd get names and numbers and keep all the info on file. Nobody had any interest in pursuing it.

In one case, agents came to the shop demanding I pull records for a gun they claimed was likely "in the hands of the cartels." While I waited for them to call the tracing center, one of them asked me what I did if there was an attempted straw purchase. I told them of my difficulties in getting anyone to pursue the issue. He then claimed that I should go ahead and transfer the weapon to the suspect, then call the ATF so they could follow up. Ridiculous.
 
I had a few attempted straw purchases over the years. Each time, I contacted the local office, and the ATF told me it was an issue for the sheriff. When I contacted the sheriff, they told me it was an issue for the ATF. I'd get names and numbers and keep all the info on file. Nobody had any interest in pursuing it.

In one case, agents came to the shop demanding I pull records for a gun they claimed was likely "in the hands of the cartels." While I waited for them to call the tracing center, one of them asked me what I did if there was an attempted straw purchase. I told them of my difficulties in getting anyone to pursue the issue. He then claimed that I should go ahead and transfer the weapon to the suspect, then call the ATF so they could follow up. Ridiculous.
You just have to love the bureaucracy, the federal government behind the 8 ball all the time and Fast & Furious comes to mind
 
44 AMP said:
They assume that a waiting period of 3 days, or 10, or whatever number they decide on will force the potential murderer to wait and reflect on their decision and possibly they will reconsider and not do violence against others.

This assumption might actually work with some small numbers, but we'll never know, there's no way to know, people who were thinking of murder and reconsider don't let the world know that. There's no statistics that can be made into a database and used for talking points, there's no evidence available at all. All there is, is the assumption and supposition that crimes that didn't happen are the result of the waiting period. It's BS.

Agreed! Given the utter lack of data, all assumptions and speculations are equal, so it is also possible that a waiting period could lead someone to think about adding others to shoot with his new gun, or take more time to plan and thereby succeed.
 
Agreed! Given the utter lack of data, all assumptions and speculations are equal, so it is also possible that a waiting period could lead someone to think about adding others to shoot with his new gun, or take more time to plan and thereby succeed.
Or switch to Molotov cocktails that are a lot harder to trace...
 
Here in NJ they now have the State Police do the NICS, when I bought a 22LR rifle in December it was pay for it, fill out the paperwork, and they texted me when the NICS came through, about 4-5 days later.
 
raimius
Quote:
The Brady Law (a federal law) does not allow the dealer to transfer the firearm until the MDI date unless he receives a proceed status before that date. That's a delay.
Then, I assume, you are intentionally misconstruing the National "Instant" Check System as the same thing as a legal minimum time (such as proposed 3 or 10 day waits). Clearly, these are different things, and the latter is what the OP was asking about.
OP said nothing about proposed wait periods.
 
If you have a CCW in AZ, there is no background search, even. 10 minutes, tops, and you are out the door with your new toy.

But, nowadays, without ammo!!
 
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