Is this safe to reload?

C

Carl G

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Good afternoon all. Thanks for accepting me. I'm brand new to this forum and to reloading and have a concern. I hope this photo loads. Anyway it is a photo of a new factory Fort Scott 45/70 TUI 300 gr. cartridge. Their crimp method seems to put these striations on the brass. Would this be safe to reload or has this weakened the brass such that I should not reload it? It is a Starline casing. Thanks for any response and get ready for more annoying newbie questions.
 
Email them that picture and ask them if the cartridges are defective or if this is normal and it is safe to fire. I have never seen new brass look like that. IF it is safe to fire THEN I would inspect it for cracks afterwards. Personally I will NOT knowingly reload any casing with mouth splits.
 
That's a judgement call that you'll have to make. Personally I think I'd pass on them as it looks like they're scratched deep enough to make the rim ragged, I'd go with new Starline brass & not have to worry about the possibility of splitting a case.
 
I've not noticed that on anything before, either. It's odd. The scratches are evenly spaced, but not of even length. I'm thinking they used something like a profile crimp die, but suffered some rubbing off of the crenellations you sometimes see left by a trimming cutter at the mouth of a case. This built up in the die until it was gouging out the surface. But I don't really know.

Calling the manufacturer is a good idea. Whether or not they will split depends, in part, on the dimensions of your chamber. When the mouth expands, it will stretch at those grooves preferentially, and how much total stretching they have to do will determine whether the cases survive or not, and how many reloading cycles the can survive. If they handle the initial firing OK, I wouldn't hesitate to try reloading them, but I would watch for splits when expanding and when seating bullets. If I saw necks splitting either during shooting, I would toss them all.
 
I think that is a crimp unique to their bullets. Those are solid copper bullets. Maybe that makes a difference. I have shot a box of these and none have split but you can see the imprint of the groves on the inside of the case. I'm intimidated by the prospect of reloading so I have ordered some (hard to find) new Starline brass. I have about 150 rounds of the Fort Scott ammo and would have been nice to use the casings but without blanket approval from experienced people I'll pass. Thanks for the replies.
 
Carl G said:
I think that is a crimp unique to their bullets. Those are solid copper bullets. Maybe that makes a difference. I have shot a box of these and none have split but you can see the imprint of the groves on the inside of the case. I'm intimidated by the prospect of reloading so I have ordered some (hard to find) new Starline brass. I have about 150 rounds of the Fort Scott ammo and would have been nice to use the casings but without blanket approval from experienced people I'll pass. Thanks for the replies.
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That’s the smart move, seems like you’re off to a good start being careful and safe.
 
Carl G said:
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Good afternoon all. Thanks for accepting me. I'm brand new to this forum and to reloading and have a concern. I hope this photo loads. Anyway it is a photo of a new factory Fort Scott 45/70 TUI 300 gr. cartridge. Their crimp method seems to put these striations on the brass. Would this be safe to reload or has this weakened the brass such that I should not reload it? It is a Starline casing. Thanks for any response and get ready for more annoying newbie questions.
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I would reload them. If they crack - pitch them. They're at least good for 1 load cycle.
 
Shoot them, then reload them normally. Odds are you'll see those grooves "iron out" a bit. They don't appear to be very deep.

I had an HK 91 .308 and the fluted chamber left worrisome grooves in the fired brass. Reloaded and fired them several times with out issue.
 
Starline makes very good brass.
I buy it and use it. They do NOT sell loaded ammo.
Which means some outfit (Ft Scott) buys their brass and loads it.

I've never heard of Ft Scott. What do you have to go by that indicates Ft Scott does everything required to make quality, safe ammo?

Do we have any reason to believe these "Striations" are there by design and intent? I can't think of why.

I take steps to make sure my brass is clean before it enters my dies. Any grit on the brass will embed as it goes into the die and become a cutting tooth.
It looks to me like (perhaps) Ft Scott has worn, abused, horrible dies in their tool crib. Perhaps racked behind their grinders. During wheel dressing.
Maybe open tubs of brass ,open doors, and a sandstorm? Or OOPS! Night cleanup dumps the floor sweepings in the virgin brass?
Which might make me wonder about their powder measuring equipment.

And their standards in general. Who does that to brass and calls it good?

There is some hack outfit selling .308 ammo that blows up guns.

A respected name in Aerospace has doors falling off passenger planes.

You paid your money,you make your choices.

Right now,with your attitude toward safety and being willing to ask questions and learn, I'd shoot ammo YOU loaded before I would shoot any Ft Scott.

You might contact Ft Scott with your pix and ask for an explanation.

I'd probably blind cc the pix and inquiry to Starline attn Quality

Brass is expensive. At 45-70 pressures, you should be able to get a LOT of loads out of those cases. At least as many as you have fingers and we might throw in your toes.
Those "striations" are stress risers and will cause neck splits.
 
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My thinking is if you can feel the grooves/marks then I would not reload . Yes you can feel a standard crimp at the mouth but that's a very small section . If those can be felt 1/4" to 3/8" down the case body , I'd want no part of them ,
 
I'm thinking, yeah I know that's dangerous, :rolleyes: but I think you probably can shoot that ammo. Then I'd delegate those cases to a reasonable cast bullet lad in the original 45-70 black powder range, say 1,100 to maybe 1,300 FPS velocity depending on bullet weight. pressures won't be that high and it can be a fun gun loading.

I'm basing this on 20 rounds of .375 H&H brass I have. This brass was badly gouged by the edge of the feed ramp on a Mark X Mauser I once owned. It looked like about 50% of the case was was compromised. This brass was set aside and i worked up a 270 gr. cast bullet load to use rapid reloading practice using my Ruger #1 .375 H&H. I've reloaded that brass at least 20 times, annealing the necks prior to each fifth reload and trimming the necks as needed. I probably really should scrap that brass but it's still working giving no problems.

Paul B.
 
Welcome to the forum.

I have seen that before….i forget where. The key is what is it and what caused it.

If they are formed and quite superficial, firing will probably iron them out without issue.

If cut/scratched in, they may cause a stress concentration and crack.

First I would ask the maker if safe to shoot. They will likely say yes. After shooting, I would inspect again. If it is not cracked, I would likely shoot again. I might anneal to reduce likeliness of cracking.
 
To answer a few questions here. I have phoned and emailed Ft. Scott ammo manufacturer and no reply so far. The striations are uniformly spaced and only go the length of the bullet as if it were some sort of full bullet length crimp. What damage could be caused if the neck were to split when fired? I do have have new Starline brass on the way.
In getting into this reloading I have learned that my 45/70 Pedersoli Sharps has a freebore of about .200"+. Pretty long bullet jump. It shoots both the Ft. Scott and Hornady FTX Leverevolution ammo very well hitting a 3" bullseye at 200 yards. Seems like that is the way Pedersoli machines their chambers.
 
My guess is if you ask them if they are safe to shoot, you'll get a CYA response and at best, a request to return the ammo for a replacement.

Being new to reloading the first thing you'll discover is if you are unsure or uncomfortable about any part of your manufacturing process, you'll stop and re-evaluate. It's no different than cautiously walking on a frozen lake to find a place to fish because the price to be paid for inattention is a cold bath or drowning. In reloading, the potential hazard is your equipment and/or yourself.

Personally, I would insist on a reply even if I had to send a registered letter, a return receipt required. If they won't reply, suspect a nefarious reason and put on some heat. I never use the telephone in these circumstances because there is no communication proof. I always get a reply to a letter because the problem is obviously in black-and-white. You don't have to use threatening language, the written word is enough.
 
I've seen these scratches before. They usually occur in a size die that is scratched or has a significant amount of brass buildup in it. They are just cosmetic, not deep enough to present a safety issue. But they are ugly.
 
They could well be an intentional, superficial marking.

at a guess, I would think that you've got a custom loading shop using new starline brass, and they might be running that "crimp" marking both to ensure that the case neck is sized and as a visual cue that it has been done.

Virgin brass MAY be ready to load when it comes out of the box, but my experience is that this is not a 100% guaranteed thing, so I FL size all my virgin brass before loading.

The commercial loading shop may not want to take that step, and may only be sizing the necks as part of the seating and crimping process. You'll have to ask them about that.

Starline is good brass, from your pictures the markings are not deep enough to affect the strength of the brass. Shoot them and load them normally.

IF a case mouth cracks (which, if you flare correctly isn't likely to happen), toss the case. IF you load is safe, case mouth cracking on firing normally doesn't harm the gun.

What you may find is the case mouth cracking when you flare it in the reloading process, and if that happens, all you lose is the case.

Always good to stop and ask everytime you have doubts or questions. In this case, I don't think you have anything to worry about, but that's just my opinion, and worth what you paid for it, or possibly less...:D
 
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