Is this from not annealing?

std7mag:, I'm starting to want to do what you did with this powder, but, dang!, I just bought 5 pounds of this a month ago and I'm going to try whatever I can to see if I can make it work, maybe I will have to use it in my AR-15 or my Savage 223 bolt gun.
I think someday I should get into annealing Unclenick, just I dont have one right now, thanks.
 
Lugerstew,

I am pointing out you likely don't need to anneal because brass properties are such that it is unlikely to change what pressure level makes the case seal the chamber. I could be wrong if your chamber is very big, so I mentioned a way of testing to prove it by comparing annealed with unannealed worked brass fired in your chamber. But you would get the same information comparing the fired size of a new, never-previously-fired case to one of your older cases. Check the neck diameter in particular. If the new case is bigger, then annealing might help.
 
Ya, in addition to shortening the coal and also adding a lee factory crimp, if that didnt change anything, then my next step was to reload some of these in new brass, and I will definitely measure them after shooting and compare the size of the neck, and shoulder growth from the new cases to the ones I am suspecting are over work hardened.
Thanks again
 
Stagpanther
I may try Staball in a 6.5 CM. I tried two different times with the stuff in 243, same results. It was surprising as the product is advertised as consistent at extreme Temps.
 
My go to powder for my Grendel is CFE223. I've had no soot problems, running 1.5gr below max. As suggested, looks like your charges are too low. For me, annealing is a PITA. I get about 7 loads from a case and discard it.
 
Stagpanther
I may try Staball in a 6.5 CM. I tried two different times with the stuff in 243, same results. It was surprising as the product is advertised as consistent at extreme Temps.
Click to expand...
It's possible it does perform differently in 243 win, I haven't used it in that--but in the cartridges I have used it in it typically performs as advertised for me.
 
6.5 Staball used in a Manbun? :eek:;)

I've heard good about it in 7mm-08. Decent increase in velocity.
Kinda like Hybrid 100V in the 257 Roberts.

I would listen seriously to Unclenick!
He's been there, done that, and is a wealth of useful information!
 
Pretty simple, Ball Powder, cold temps, very marginal load (start at 45.4) probably not a magnum primer. Max is 3 gr so falling off the low edge equally fast.
 
RC20 : I am going to try them tomorrow, 5 each, seated further down to 2.800, 5 each same but crimped, and 5 each, same but in new Hornady brass, I'm using 47g of this stuff with the 168g Sierra hpbt, one problem is, my data from a year ago in January, same gun, same load, 48g and 49g ,showed major over pressure signs, but with a different lot of CFE223, so I really don't want to go over 47g right now.
I'll try to remember to post my results, thanks.
 
I missed the 2nd load levels.

All the signs of not enough pressure. Could be the combo powder, temperature.

I don't think annealing has anything to do with it. A magnum primer might help.

I had two different lots of Varget that were quite a bit apart velocity wise. Pushing hard if not over the 10% variation .

Due to hard learned lessons on power shortage, I only buy big jugs. That also makes the for longer uniformity.

New jug (not lately!) I check it all again to see where I stand.
 
Varget was famous for lot inconsistency in the '90s. Complaints about it were one of the things that lead Hodgdon to revamp its QC system around 2000. So if one of your lots was from that era, it could have been quite a difference. We don't expect that much variation now, though it is not impossible for a lot to slip through the cracks, I suppose.
 
Wow, this test has opened my eyes to the differences there can be between lot numbers of the same powder!
Went to the range today to test 1 different shorter coal and crimps of the exact same load, brass etc. 5 each
All I did different was seat the bullets about .065 deeper into the same cases and all 3 tests, showed absolutely no sooting at all.
Test 1 with bullet seated .065 deeper= 2755 avg fps, 27 ES. No Soot
Test 2 with bullet seated .065 deeper and crimped =2771 avg fps, 108 ES No Sooting.
Test 3 with bullet seated .065 deeper and new Hornady brass =2728 avg fps, 17 ES, No Sooting.
I then immediately took 2 of the already loaded rounds seated out .065 further coal to 2.865 and velocity went down to 2653 avg fps with bad sooting.
In my records from last year, I loaded these exact rounds with very long coals, even longer that 2.865, but different lot of CFE223 and had No Sooting.
I suppose I can try like someone said, and maybe just increase powder 1 or 2 grains, but that is yet to be proven.
 
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if you have quickload run a sim with the bullet seated .065 deeper and see what the pressure increase is.

A lot of posters have pointed out to you that the problem is low pressure, something that is easily cured
 
Another reason to raise the charge. When it takes more of a different lot of a given powder to reach a given velocity in the same gun, the peak pressure is lower. This is because more powder by weight means more gas generated and that means more of the acceleration occurs when the bullet is past its peak pressure position in the tube and more of its acceleration is coming from residual post-peak pressure. In other words, muzzle pressure goes up from the extra gas, but peak pressure goes down. The peak reduction is because the burn is slower and that lets the bullet get further down the tube before the peak occurs, causing it to happen in a larger combustion space.

So you are safe upping charge to match the velocity of the previous lot. But I reiterate, this rule only applies when we are talking about different lots of the same type of powder. It does not work when you compare two different powder types.
 
from post 11. Bold added by me

I had this trouble a week ago, with 168g horn bthp, and nosler 168g cc, but these were 43.5g and 44g.
Todays sooting was with 168g sierra hpbt, 47g and a coal of 2.920, I guess that is .110 longer than load data of max 2.810, but I was trying to do a Coal test from 2.920 down to 2.850, maybe that is part of the problem.
Click to expand...

from Hodgdon load data starting load is 46.6 and the maximum load is 49.0 @2.80. The reason for the low pressure is pretty obvious.
 
If I saw that kind of sooting I would raise the charge at least 1/2 grain and load only 5.

CFE123 is a pretty narrow range powder (at least according to Hogden, 3 grains - ergo, being cautious, 1 grain looks more correct.

CFE123 is not a powder I have on the list. I would not have known it was a 308 powder sans the post.

Don't ignore pressure indicators either.
 
Thanks everyone, I have realized all along that it seemed obvious of being a low pressure event. I have always went by my old load data records and this one was not working. I need to work up this load again with this new powder lot for sure, I understand completely, it's just I have never experienced this before with hundreds of loads and changing powder lots quite a bit. I have always just reloaded again the next year or two with the same data I have recorded and loaded up more again to shoot at further distances. This powder though, to me has issues and I need to be careful with it.
I know, it is probably not safe to reload your data with new powder lots that you have worked up and found the best load to be at maximum, but whenever they are mid level load data, I have never hesitated to just load more years later and assumed it to be safe. Again, no problems with this attitude with many other loads, but this CFE223 has got me leery. I will proceed with caution.
Thanks so much
 
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