Is this brandishing
- Thread starter rose728751
- Start date
First of all- I won't do anything that anyone can even accuse of being brandishing. So I would not have done what you did.
Secondly- equip yourself better if you are going to carry while you ride. I know you said it was hot, but having to sit on a t-shirt to keep it covering your gun is not a good setup. Having your other cover shirt unbuttoned and billowing out behind you as you ride is not good either.
Get a jacket that is ventilated for air flow and will serve as proper cover.
Now- to your issue with the other driver. Evade, evade, evade.
If the driver won't back off after an obvious glance back, swing to one side and hit the brakes, letting the guy get by you. And then get ready to head in the other direction.
Secondly- equip yourself better if you are going to carry while you ride. I know you said it was hot, but having to sit on a t-shirt to keep it covering your gun is not a good setup. Having your other cover shirt unbuttoned and billowing out behind you as you ride is not good either.
Get a jacket that is ventilated for air flow and will serve as proper cover.
Now- to your issue with the other driver. Evade, evade, evade.
If the driver won't back off after an obvious glance back, swing to one side and hit the brakes, letting the guy get by you. And then get ready to head in the other direction.
zincwarrior
New member
To be clear I am not attempting to attack the poster. I just believe this was not wise and could have resulted in a far more injurious result. Brandishing is the least of negative events that could have occurred. Being on a bike you are at a natural disadvantage vs. a vehicle. On the other hand your evasion / hard break and bail option is much greater.
Also agree with AK's comment on better gear.
If the car driver wanted to call 911 and report a man driving a bike with open carry theres a good chance an officer could stop and cite or maybe not depending on the officers call. Yes in a way I can say you showed it to him intentionally because you felt threatened. Thats just a given riding a motorcycle, people dont respect cars much less a bike... Would I ever do the same??? Sure if I felt someone toying with me just to be funny, Sure Id even do more than that really if someone wants to play. This sounds like it could go either way but still really depends on how the officer chooses to handle it and how each person describes their side. Glad it worked out for you but be very careful next time. Some people are out there to see if they can just ruin someones day and some officers are there for the same reason.
zincwarrior
New member
Here's the problem with that statement. Are you going to draw on the person in the car? remember I don't know about there, but in California when I was younger there were a few instances of guys on bikes shooting at cars.
Thinking to myself, yes I've actually gotten close to people. Yes there have been times when it looks like I was following someone or they I even to different lanes when it was for something else (very similar location, thinking there's something in the road I'm not seeing yet which has saved me a few times actually tec). BUT
As a hypothetical, if I'm riding along and all the sudden I notice out of the corner of my eye a guy on a bike right next to me or right in front of me with a gun drawn, I might break or I might instantly and very intentionally floor it and hit them because I'm thinking they are taking a shot at me or my family. You just became a statistic because my flying death machine that is a car is going to leave nothing of you but goo. Theres no way you win that.
I'm not trying to be hostile here. I'm saying this might be the response you get from someone thinking they themselves are about to die.
Zhillsauditor
New member
There was in incident here in Florida recently where a man was getting his towed car back from the tow company (which had mistakenly towed the vehicle). The owner of the tow truck tried to stop him, and stated that the man made motions to run him over, so the owner shot the man fatally. However, the angle of the entry wounds showed that the shooter was not in front of the vehicle, but to the side. The owner was convicted of murder.
The defense was that the owner had only a few seconds to make a life and death decision and acted reasonably based on the perceived threat.
The defense was that the owner had only a few seconds to make a life and death decision and acted reasonably based on the perceived threat.
Bartholomew Roberts
Moderator
Texas doesn't have a specific law titled "brandishing" but what you describe would appear to be covered by Section 46 of the Penal Code concerning unlawful carry of weapons:
Both are Class A misdemeanors; however having a CHL gives you an extra layer of protection in that IF you have a CHL, it is a defense to prosecution that you were justified under Section 9 of the Penal Code (as covered by JohnKSa earlier in the thread). Also note that a CHL holder must INTENTIONALLY expose the firearm. If you are just carrying under Texas's Travelling Statute and you RECKLESSLY expose the handgun to plain view (say by carrying it on a motorcycle with nothing more than a t-shirt covering it, leaving it on your dash, etc.), then you can be convicted for unlawful carry.
Both are Class A misdemeanors; however having a CHL gives you an extra layer of protection in that IF you have a CHL, it is a defense to prosecution that you were justified under Section 9 of the Penal Code (as covered by JohnKSa earlier in the thread). Also note that a CHL holder must INTENTIONALLY expose the firearm. If you are just carrying under Texas's Travelling Statute and you RECKLESSLY expose the handgun to plain view (say by carrying it on a motorcycle with nothing more than a t-shirt covering it, leaving it on your dash, etc.), then you can be convicted for unlawful carry.
rose728751
New member
I do have CHL.
As I had said, I did not touch the gun, did not look at the guy, (No glaring look) when the T shirt blow up.
I know what I did. Aside from that, it could have been an honest error. But ................
it went in the right direction, Yes, it could have gone another way.
I did make eye contact at the very start, when I started to feel as though he was getting a bit TOOOO close. I got a look as to say, SO. that is when I attempted to let him pass
As I had said, I did not touch the gun, did not look at the guy, (No glaring look) when the T shirt blow up.
I know what I did. Aside from that, it could have been an honest error. But ................
it went in the right direction, Yes, it could have gone another way.
I did make eye contact at the very start, when I started to feel as though he was getting a bit TOOOO close. I got a look as to say, SO. that is when I attempted to let him pass
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I ride daily and know exactly how you felt. IMO it was not a wise thing to do but glad it had a positive effect. I carry in a compartment in my fairing and have been tempted to pull it several times.
Once I was intentionally run off the road into a bar ditch along the hwy. I managed to maintain control thru the grass, etc. When I finally got back up on the pavement the SOB was sitting right there. I was really pumped up and in fear of my life so slamed on the brakes and pulled my 44 spcl. Then I noticed that traffic had him surrounded and stopped. I walked up and slapped some on his door window with a few choice words then got back on my bike and traffic got moving again. Long story short next I knew I was pulled over by the police. All they knew was some crazy biker was "waving a gun around" by all the 911 calls recieved. After explaining myself 3 times they looked for the guy who ran me off the road but of course didn't find him.
I was in handcuffs on the curb thinking what a fool I was and how I was gonna post bail when the cops let me go saying there was no one to press charges and to be smarter in the future.
Even tho I was wronged and felt the threat still existed at the time I pulled my weapon, it was the wrong thing to do. Things could have gone very badly for me and I learned a valuable lesson. Don't ever pull a gun unless it is a split second away from being to late to do so, even here in Texas!
Once I was intentionally run off the road into a bar ditch along the hwy. I managed to maintain control thru the grass, etc. When I finally got back up on the pavement the SOB was sitting right there. I was really pumped up and in fear of my life so slamed on the brakes and pulled my 44 spcl. Then I noticed that traffic had him surrounded and stopped. I walked up and slapped some on his door window with a few choice words then got back on my bike and traffic got moving again. Long story short next I knew I was pulled over by the police. All they knew was some crazy biker was "waving a gun around" by all the 911 calls recieved. After explaining myself 3 times they looked for the guy who ran me off the road but of course didn't find him.
I was in handcuffs on the curb thinking what a fool I was and how I was gonna post bail when the cops let me go saying there was no one to press charges and to be smarter in the future.
Even tho I was wronged and felt the threat still existed at the time I pulled my weapon, it was the wrong thing to do. Things could have gone very badly for me and I learned a valuable lesson. Don't ever pull a gun unless it is a split second away from being to late to do so, even here in Texas!
Kreyzhorse
New member
It was intentional and as a result you brandished your firearm.
Aguila Blanca
Staff
Agreed. The intention being the qualifying factor.TheNocturnus said:
Actually, it was probably more than mere brandishing. It could very likely be construed as threatening.
But how would the driver or police establish that his actions were intentional? His shirt flew up because he lifted his butt off the seat. That could have occurred inadvertently. So unless he admitted to deliberately displaying the pistol, I think that it would be very difficult to make a charge out of this.
And I'm not advocating breaking the law, but still the OP wouldn't be compelled to incriminate himself.
FWIW the reason that someone tails a bike in this way is to make the rider go down. They want to make you crash. So it is a mortal threat, though that would be difficult to prove as well. I think that's part of the attraction for some drivers.
And I'm not advocating breaking the law, but still the OP wouldn't be compelled to incriminate himself.
FWIW the reason that someone tails a bike in this way is to make the rider go down. They want to make you crash. So it is a mortal threat, though that would be difficult to prove as well. I think that's part of the attraction for some drivers.
Brian Pfleuger
Moderator Emeritus
Most people tailgate bikers because they don't know any better. Very, very few have hostile intent. I can't hardly get 5 miles without somebody 10 feet behind me.
Correct, because there isn't really any offense called "brandishing" in the TX Penal Code.
What he did was one of two things. He either intentionally carried without concealing, which is an offense, or he "used force", per the section of the penal code I quoted. Using force is not illegal, in and of itself, but it does have to be done with sufficient legal justification to be legal. Just like deadly force can only be used legally with sufficient legal justification. The difference is that force can be more easily legally justified under the TX Penal Code than deadly force can.
For the sake of argument, if he were to claim (for example) that he was twisting in his seat to see the tailgating vehicle and the shirt blew up accidentally, then there is no intent to display and therefore no offense.
However, because he's explicitly stated that he intentionally displayed the gun, it's sort of a moot point for this discussion.
Even if the police could prove his actions were intentional, he could still legally justify his actions if he were able to convince whatever arm of the legal system he happened to run afoul of that the other person was using or attempting to use unlawful force and that he felt he had no other option but to immediately flash his gun.
wow...again
Moderator
Sounds like some punk giving you a hard time...
I would worry about it. You touched your firearm with your hands or your clothes with your hands. Be hard to say you brandished your firearm. And it sounds like you got your point across. There ought to be open carry all 50 states anyhow
I would worry about it. You touched your firearm with your hands or your clothes with your hands. Be hard to say you brandished your firearm. And it sounds like you got your point across. There ought to be open carry all 50 states anyhow
rose728751
New member
OK
Lets look at this from the out side looking in.
Some one see's a biker going 55, from a distance ahead of them (lets say 200m 300m ahead of them) and a car passes them doing 65 and starts to slow and get behind the biker (from their view it looks as though the car is behind the biker, but they cant really tell how close from where they are yet.) then the car that is a way back observing this starts to get closer because the biker is doing 55 the speed limit, and now are able to see the car really close to the biker and see the biker speed up now and pull away and the car that is following do the same as the biker ( the biker is doing 65 now pulling away from the car that was observing this transpire.they are in the inside lane. The biker is in the out side lane)
Giving that you know that the T shirt flew up, but the car that was observing, i don't think they seen the gun, because I was maybe about 50m to 100m away.
just looking at this at another view.
(not trolling) I just reread this, and I would think that this is a troll
trying to get a reaction.
I was wrong, I know, for letting my T shirt fly up and letting the gun show.
I dont think that would have helped me if a LEO was called, I think they would have been long gone by that time to tell their story
Lets look at this from the out side looking in.
Some one see's a biker going 55, from a distance ahead of them (lets say 200m 300m ahead of them) and a car passes them doing 65 and starts to slow and get behind the biker (from their view it looks as though the car is behind the biker, but they cant really tell how close from where they are yet.) then the car that is a way back observing this starts to get closer because the biker is doing 55 the speed limit, and now are able to see the car really close to the biker and see the biker speed up now and pull away and the car that is following do the same as the biker ( the biker is doing 65 now pulling away from the car that was observing this transpire.they are in the inside lane. The biker is in the out side lane)
Giving that you know that the T shirt flew up, but the car that was observing, i don't think they seen the gun, because I was maybe about 50m to 100m away.
just looking at this at another view.
(not trolling) I just reread this, and I would think that this is a troll
trying to get a reaction.I was wrong, I know, for letting my T shirt fly up and letting the gun show.
I dont think that would have helped me if a LEO was called, I think they would have been long gone by that time to tell their story
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For future reference, if you find yourself in a situation where someone uses or attempts to use unlawful force against you, requiring your immediate response with force, your best bet would be to immediately call 911 to report the incident.
If you don't report it but the other person does, it makes it harder for you to make the case that you believed your actions were justified. After all, the normal response of a law-abiding person who's just been forced to use a gun to extricate himself from a dangerous situation is to immediately report the attempted crime against him.
Aguila Blanca
Staff
???rose728751 said:
Remedial English meets Tuesdays and Thursdays at 10:00 in room 238.
The above paragraph must have meant something to you when you wrote it, but I've just read it twice and I can't figure out what it's trying to say.