Is this a "cook off"?

I

IMTHDUKE

New member
Yesterday at the range had something happen that I have never had happen before. I fired a double tap with 1911 .45 and then tried to pull the trigger for the third...trigger would not pull. The gun was charged with slide home and hammer down. I released the trigger and the rd fired. :confused:

I went to the guy that checked me in and described the issue to him and he tells me that the cheapo ammo that he sold me had problems. Why he did not tell me that before I laid down the cash? I was steamed but did not want to make a big deal, so I got my stuff and left. Could that have been the gun? Ed Brown Alpha Carry? Or ammo? Have you ever heard of that happening? I have not had a chance to go to the range since, but will take some brand ammo and check it out.
 
sounds like a hang fire to me. Primer struck and ignition was delayed. Cheapo ammo sounds like a fair assumption.
 
Not a cook off. I'm not saying cook offs are totally impossible in an autopistol, but if you can hold a pistol without gloves to protect yourself from the heat, it won't cook off rounds.

It sounds like a hang-fire to me.
 
Only buy quality ammo. Cheap stuff can lead to catastrophic failure, injury and death. I'm thinking of squib rounds resulting in explosive weapon destruction. Pay a few extra dollars.
 
I thought the OP stated that the trigger wouldn't pull. No hang fire there. It was a mechanical failure. Possibly caused by bad ammo but it was mechanical either way. No cook off and no hang fire.
 
A cook off typically happens in a machine gun firing long strings of automatic fire. The chamber gets so hot that it causes the powder in the round to ignite. They are very rare in normal operation or even training. Under the stress of combat a machine gun may be pushed to this point. In training the barrel would be swapped out long before this happened.
 
Cheap, junk ammo is never going to be a good idea. But you certainly have me wondering how you got drawn in to the purchase of junk ammo to feed a handgun that goes for somewhere north of two thousand dollars?!

How, why?
 
Agree with Joe. The OP does not describe a hangfire.

I would get some good quality ammo and run the gun HARD. If it did that again, even once, I would be on the hot line to the warranty clerk.
 
I thought the OP stated that the trigger wouldn't pull. No hang fire there. It was a mechanical failure. Possibly caused by bad ammo but it was mechanical either way.
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He stated that he pulled the trigger and the gun didn't fire but when he looked, the hammer was down on a charged chamber. Then he released the trigger and the gun fired.

So, one of two things happened. Either the hammer followed the slide or he had actually pulled the trigger and the hammer dropped without his realizing it.

But either way, for the gun to fire well after the hammer dropped, it had to be a hangfire.

Bottom line: Hammer down on charged chamber--time elapses--gun fires = hangfire.

Unless someone can explain how releasing the trigger on a 1911 with the hammer already down on a charged chamber could fire the gun...
 
NEVER buy handloads that someone else made, especially if you don't know them!!
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A couple of ranges around here only allow new or their reloads on the firing line.
I never go to those ranges.
 
A "cook off" happens when the barrel in a belt fed MG only gets so hot(as in up to and including red hot) the powder burns without the primer being hit. You couldn't fire and load fast enough for any pistol to do it. Even if you could hold onto a steel pistol with a barrel that hot.
Very much doubt it's a hang fire despite the description.
"...trigger would not pull..." Indicates a mechanical issue likely caused by failing to follow through on the previous shot. Failing to release the trigger properly will cause the sear and hammer to jam. Possibly with enough tension on the FP spring to hold it back with enough strength left to drop on the primer after the trigger is released. Pretty much a WHAG though.
 
hangfire. that's why when you do have a fail to fire you're supposed to count to three and keep the muzzle pointed downrange.
 
Possibly with enough tension on the FP spring to hold it back with enough strength left to drop on the primer after the trigger is released.
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The firing pin spring pushes backward on the firing pin, not forward. If there's tension on the firing pin spring it should push the pin away from the primer, not towards it.
Failing to release the trigger properly will cause the sear and hammer to jam.
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If the hammer was down, the sear and hammer weren't jammed. If the sear and hammer were jammed the hammer should stay back.
...cause the sear and hammer to jam. Possibly with enough tension on the FP spring...
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I don't see how hammer/sear interaction could tension the firing pin spring. With the hammer down, there would be a very small amount of firing spring tension because in that position the hammer is pushing the firing pin forward a tiny bit. But that's a normal situation with the hammer in the forward position. Nothing that the sear can do to the hammer would push it any farther forward once it's resting on the slide.
Pretty much a WHAG though.
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I assume you mean WAG.

I will admit to not being a 1911 expert and also to not knowing everything--so I'm open to the possibility that I'm missing something. :D

When you say a WAG, are you saying you just typed some stuff off the top of your head, or are you saying you have a solid understanding of the 1911 operating mechanism and this is your best guess at how the OP's scenario could have occurred?
 
I fired a double tap with 1911 .45 and then tried to pull the trigger for the third...trigger would not pull. The gun was charged with slide home and hammer down. I released the trigger and the rd fired.
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Possibility #1
shooter did pull the trigger, when gun failed to fire, pulled again, seeing hammer down. Discharge a few seconds later would be a hangfire.

Possibility #2
mechanical malfunction, hammer fell without pulling the trigger (or followed the slide) not noticed until the trigger was pulled, without firing, and then the round fired. This would also be a hangfire.

Possibility #3
something going on that I don't have a clue about...;)


If the primer is struck, (by design or malfunction,) its not a cook off.
If the round doesn't instantly fire when the primer is struck, it's a hang fire.


Serious doubt it could be a cook off. You CAN get them in a closed bolt automatic rifle, but you really have to work at it. Getting a cook off in a pistol is, as mentioned nearly impossible.

It doesn't take as much heat as you might think, but the heat has to build up and the round has to be in the chamber long enough. You can cook off rounds in an oven. Tough to hold an oven hot pistol, not impossible to hold a rifle with an oven hot chamber.

Firing rate also works against the pistol ever getting hot enough. One simply cannot run enough rounds through a semi auto to get there. Hot enough to give serious burns, to flesh, yes. With a full auto rifle and enough mags you can get there, but not easily, and of course its "easy" with a belt feed.

The main reason modern belt feeds and subguns are designed to fire from the open bolt is give extra cooling and avoid the possibility of a cook off.
 
Yesterday at the range had something happen that I have never had happen before. I fired a double tap with 1911 .45 and then tried to pull the trigger for the third...trigger would not pull. The gun was charged with slide home and hammer down. I released the trigger and the rd fired.
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As has been stated not a cook off. If you are sure this happened you need to have your gun inspected by an armorer. It sounds more like a mechanical issue than an ammo issue. To be honest with modern ammo I think I have only seen one hangfire and that was a crappy reload someone was using in IDPA. Hangfires are much more common with muzzleloaders.
 
T. O'Heir said:
A "cook off" happens when the barrel in a belt fed MG only gets so hot(as in up to and including red hot) the powder burns without the primer being hit.
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Almost all modern belt-fed machine guns (like the M60, M249, and the M240) fire from an open bolt (the only one I can think of that fires from a closed bolt is an M2 .50 cal).

On open-bolt guns it's impossible to have a cook-off unless there's a malfunction and a round fails to fire and gets stuck in a really hot chamber. Without a malfunction, a cook-off can't occur since there are no rounds in the chamber when the trigger isn't being pressed.

On a side note, I'm always amazed at the number of service members who carried an open-bolt machine gun like the M60, M240, or M249 who think that a cook-off is what causes a runaway gun in those weapons. That's not the case: On an open-bolt machine gun it's impossible for a cook-off to cause a runaway gun.
 
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