Is this 1911 A1 worth a crap?

From Jim:

Also contrary to your assumption, NO weapons were kept intact through the rebuild process

I did not say that they were. I said the opposite in fact. I said...

An arsenal rebuild could have mixed the frame and original slide.

I said this because it was common for parts to be mixed in the arsenal rebuilds this gun shows signs of that. I said that earlier.

I also did not say that fellas on a battlefield kept their weapons "pristine" I did say that it was unlikely that the extent of rust that would account for that deep pitting was the results of a few days or weeks of negligence. It's more the result of months of neglect. That it was not likely to occur if carried into battle.

There is an old saying about buying guns. You buy the gun, not the story. In the absence of valid documentary evidence the story, no matter what, does not matter. Look at the gun itself and decide what you'd pay for it. This is not a $1500. gun.

Fellas can add a lot of what if this, and what if that, maybe it was buried in the mud and what if a one armed fella polished it, or it was carried by "Chesty" Puller. None of that matters unless there is evidence of it.

The op was told a story along with the gun, that story has been embellished on here...OK maybe...but not too likely. Mainly because for every legitimate arsenal rebuild there are 100 or so guns that were reparked over rusty and pitted slides by someone who tried to pass it off as something it is not by having a story. Also because the gun does not look like an arsenal rebuild and repark. Not to me anyway for the reasons I outlined.

Despite what some may think, GI guns that are arsenal rebuilt are collected and do command a premium price over just old beaters. But...that is with a documented record or pristine condition. There is no documentation here and the gun is in far from pristine condition for a rebuild. It very much looks like a bring back that was allowed to rust, was crudely polished up and re-parked over that.

This latter explanation is the more common thing and is why I lean towards it in the absence of documentation.

It's value is the value of an old beater. It may prove to be a decent shooter buy it as that. But at $1500. pass on it as it will not carry that value.

tipoc
 
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Sorry I misunderstood you on the mismatch.

I agree that the gun is not worth $1500 and I doubt any arsenal rebuild is worth that amount.

But you missed my point on rebuilds. Rebuilds are not restorations, and are not going to be "pristine" afterward. Rebuilding only means that they were made serviceable, not that they were made like new.

I am well aware of the old stories and by this time have heard most of them; for that matter, the OP does not mention any story, about Puller or anyone else, you pulled that out of the air.. There seems little doubt that it was rebuilt at Augusta; the AA marking shows that. As to documentation on rebuilds, there is none.

You are right that the gun could well have been rusted and refinished after service, but there is no way to prove that either.

What it is is a mixmaster M1911, in poor condition. Is it worth even $500? I am not sure, but I wouldn't pay that for it.

Jim
 
I'm actually very familiar with arsenal rebuilds. I did not say or imply that they are restorations.

Of course I made up the Chesty Puller bit. That was an obvious joke to point up that you suggested it was buried in the mud, placed in bad storage in the arsenal or any number of stories that can't be proven.

I never denied the gun was rebuilt at Agusta.

Yes occasionally guns that leave military service do have letters that go with them. This has included arsenal rebuilds. There are a good many examples of these. Usually they are letters from commanding officers allowing the gun to be brought home. If you keep an eye on Auction Arms or Gunbroker they turn up as well as in private auctions by known sellers. You can also see them in the military guns section of the 1911 forum which I linked to earlier. There are a few books out on military 1911s which show examples of these.

tipoc
 
This is going nowhere. Believe whatever you want to believe about that gun, it doesn't matter since you are not buying it and neither am I. :rolleyes:

Jim
 
This is going nowhere. Believe whatever you want to believe about that gun, it doesn't matter since you are not buying it and neither am I.

It did go somewhere. You agreed with me. I won you over with charm.:)

tipoc
 
I doubt any arsenal rebuild is worth that amount.

If not now, just wait a while, and not long at that.
Nice AA etc. reworks in top condition and not too many mixed parts are selling for over $1000 and gaining as nice originals go for well over $2000.
I don't see it, but I grew up when army surplus was army surplus and it did not matter whether it was inspected by Arthur E. Neuman, Elwood P. Dowd, or George P. Burdell.
 
hmm. This old bird may not be crap after all.. I looked at both sites Topac and I wonder if I should try to negotiate for it or trade something.. It seems, it still could be collectible regardless the condition since these were rebuilds for the War. Do you think $1000 is reasonable or is $500 still about right.?
 
Do a Google search "arsenal rebuilt 1911s for sale" and see what pops up.

Also look at pics of other guns in similar condition.

Try this, Google "pics of arsenal rebuilt 1911s" a batch of pics turn up. How do they compare to the one you looked at?

At gun shows there are often several of these. They can be examined and handled.

Also how bad do you want that gun you looked at?

Patience and study can pay off.

https://www.google.com/webhp?source...pv=2&ie=UTF-8#q=pics of arsenal rebuilt 1911s

tipoc
 
SOP for the 1911 pistol has been, since the advent of the M1911A1, to maintain M1911s with A1 parts, as needed.

During my service doing 3rd & 4th level maint on small arms (depot - "arsenal" work is level 5) I saw three different M1911s come through my shop at different times. One had original grips. They were all in for the same thing, rear sight replacement. The guns had the rear sights damaged (dropped, most likely).

If a 1911 never suffered something that made it unserviceable (or that made it fail an inspection) it got repaired. If not, nothing was done to it. There are probably still some un-repaired, un-restored, un-refinished, completely original 1911s in some arms rooms somewhere, as long as they are keeping .45s.

The gun in the pics has the right safety, and as far as I can see, the right hammer, and it has the flat mainspring housing. All correct for a 1911 gun. It does not have the correct grips for a pre-WWII gun.

not worth $1500 to me, not even worth $500, but then, I'm not a well heeled collector who just has to have a 1911 to fill a spot in the collection.
 
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