dreamweaver
New member
astra
Is there such a thing as a good SPANISH handgun?
- Thread starter jmstr
- Start date
No. As a rule, the vast majority of handguns were made in job shops before the 1936 Civil War started. After Franco's victory, he shut all of them down with the exception of Unceta (Astra), Gabilondo (Llama), Echeverria (Star) and Echave & Arizmendi ("Fast," "Dickson" and few other lesser known brand names).
Generally, Astra and Star pistols were on a par with virtually any other contemporary European manufacturer as far as quality is concerned, but less so with Llama, particularly near the end.
The pre-1936 Civil War "job-shop" pistols range in quality from fair to downright garbage.
To answer your specific question, I found the Astra 600 to be one of the most accurate 9mm handguns I have ever shot, and I purchased an Astra A-75 about 15 years ago that is a pretty decent weapon, in my opinion.
For centuries, Spain was known for the high quality of its weapons. The later Roman legions were armed in large part with steel (yes, that is correct) swords made in Spain. But after the post-WWI cheap gun debacle, Spain's reputation took a hit and after the Spanish Civil War, Franco decreed that only four companies would be allowed to make handguns - Bonifacio Echeverria (Star), Gabilondo y Cia. (Llama), Unceta y Cia. (Astra), and Echave y Arerizmendi (Echasa). The latter went out of business, leaving only three makers.
All turned out good guns, but (IMHO), only Astra was of a quality equal to the best products of other countries. Star was second and Llama third (again MHO). Some of the later Llama pistols looked and felt good, but were not accurate and exhibited a lot of hand fitting and file work internally.
AFAIK, all Spanish handgun makers are now out of business, due mostly to the trend toward handgun bans in Europe. (Only the UK has actually banned and confiscated handguns, but in many other countries there is an effective ban on civilian ownership of handguns with exceptions for the elite and the wealthy. That is probably part of what the current administration would like to see as part of its desire to "Europeanize" America.)
Jim
All turned out good guns, but (IMHO), only Astra was of a quality equal to the best products of other countries. Star was second and Llama third (again MHO). Some of the later Llama pistols looked and felt good, but were not accurate and exhibited a lot of hand fitting and file work internally.
AFAIK, all Spanish handgun makers are now out of business, due mostly to the trend toward handgun bans in Europe. (Only the UK has actually banned and confiscated handguns, but in many other countries there is an effective ban on civilian ownership of handguns with exceptions for the elite and the wealthy. That is probably part of what the current administration would like to see as part of its desire to "Europeanize" America.)
Jim
The Astra trademark has been taken up by a Swiss company, Astra Arms - http://www.astra-arms.ch/
who are remaking the Colt Gold Cup!
who are remaking the Colt Gold Cup!
Amin Parker
New member
Wow. If the price is right then those pistols will be a huge hit. Not to mention the AR rifles
Star made some very good guns towards the end of the company's life. The
M30 and the improved version the M31 were very good guns, built like tanks, accurate, and very reliable. Copies of the M30 have gone 100,000 rounds without a failure. Although, they are a little heavy by today's standards because they were all steel.
M30 and the improved version the M31 were very good guns, built like tanks, accurate, and very reliable. Copies of the M30 have gone 100,000 rounds without a failure. Although, they are a little heavy by today's standards because they were all steel.
I don't know about the other makes, but I've owned 5 Astras, 2 A-80's, an A-100, and two A-75's, all were great guns. I still own the 9mm A-100, and a 9mm A-75. I had one of the A-80's for over a decade, and only sold it due to financial issues, and I wasn't crazy about the mag release. I put several thousand rounds through it, and never even changed the recoil spring. It was used when I bought it, so I have no idea how many rounds had been put through it before I got it. I like their all steel construction, and I think that most of the negative comments about them are from people who never owned one, and are parroting comments they've read about them.
A friend bought a well used (To put it mildly) A-90 recently, and it might have about 50% of the blue gone, but it shoots fine. Makes a nice truck gun.
A friend bought a well used (To put it mildly) A-90 recently, and it might have about 50% of the blue gone, but it shoots fine. Makes a nice truck gun.
The now discontinued A70 series and it's kindred from Star are great guns. The Star B models are also great guns. The Astra Constable is a much better gun for the money that the Walthers IMHO. The Star .45 PD was one of the first reliable small 1911 in .45. So yes they do make some good guns. For whatever reason they just all went belly up. Wouldn't mind one of the Star 9mm BM's for a beater gun.
larryh1108
New member
As an owner of quite a few Llamas, I keep buying them trying to find that elusive "junk" one that I keep reading about on the net. I keep buying them and they keep working. One day I may find that one that has soft steel, was assembled by that blind guy and can't shoot 2 in a row without exploding in my hand but mine have all been nice guns that perform well and are worth more than I paid for them. If I buy enough of them I'll probably find that darn lemon but I can do that with any mfg.
predecessor
New member
Everyone with the nice comments...what are you doing? I have no problem with the perception that Spanish guns stink. Let the parrots squawk nonsense. This is what keeps the price down on the guns and makes them such a great value for those of us who collect them!
I've owned and carried my Star M-43 "Firestar" 9x19 since 1993. It's never malfed on me with factory ammo (approx. 9K rds and counting so far), it hits right where I point it with 124 gr. loads, it's amazingly accurate for a sub-compact 9x19 when I do my part right and the "Starvel" finish has held up amazingly well.
It's getting tougher to find maintenance parts such as replacement springs for it, and the tritium in its Meprolights is getting dim now, but I still trust it implicitly to run and make the hits if and when called upon.
OTOH, I once owned a Llama XXII .22 RF that was pretty dismally made. The action parts looked as if they'd been fitted with a wood rasp and it had the most disturbing tendency for "hammer follow", leading to several AD's into the backstop and once blowing a hole in the ground about 4" from the toe of my boot when the slide was dropped on a fresh mag. When the importer (Stoeger, IIRC) couldn't/wouldn't repair it to my satisfaction after several tries it went onward (with full disclosure and at substantial loss) to a fellow who figured that he could buy the parts and fix it himself.
FWIW, and others' MMV, I'd buy another Star or an Astra at the right price in a heartbeat, but most any Llama would get the "fine toothed comb" treatment no matter what the price.
It's getting tougher to find maintenance parts such as replacement springs for it, and the tritium in its Meprolights is getting dim now, but I still trust it implicitly to run and make the hits if and when called upon.
OTOH, I once owned a Llama XXII .22 RF that was pretty dismally made. The action parts looked as if they'd been fitted with a wood rasp and it had the most disturbing tendency for "hammer follow", leading to several AD's into the backstop and once blowing a hole in the ground about 4" from the toe of my boot when the slide was dropped on a fresh mag. When the importer (Stoeger, IIRC) couldn't/wouldn't repair it to my satisfaction after several tries it went onward (with full disclosure and at substantial loss) to a fellow who figured that he could buy the parts and fix it himself.
FWIW, and others' MMV, I'd buy another Star or an Astra at the right price in a heartbeat, but most any Llama would get the "fine toothed comb" treatment no matter what the price.
The OP specifically mentioned reliability, but that really is not always the same as quality. I once had a .32 ACP "no name" Ruby type pistol. I also had a bunch of ammo and decided to shoot it up. I couldn't make that cheap gun fail. The gun was rusty, battered, had a missing safety and was not worth $10, but it worked for as long as the ammo lasted (maybe 1200 rounds).
I later traded it, but that and similar experiences have taught me that even guns that are poor quality by anyone's estimate, often work well. When White & Munhall conducted a study for the government on "Saturday Night Specials" to "prove" how cheap and bad and unreliable they were, their test RG-10's went thousands of rounds without a hitch, while "quality" guns failed. Even in the continual firing of proof loads, the RG revolvers came up fine, while the S&W Escorts had the sideplates blown off.
Jim
I later traded it, but that and similar experiences have taught me that even guns that are poor quality by anyone's estimate, often work well. When White & Munhall conducted a study for the government on "Saturday Night Specials" to "prove" how cheap and bad and unreliable they were, their test RG-10's went thousands of rounds without a hitch, while "quality" guns failed. Even in the continual firing of proof loads, the RG revolvers came up fine, while the S&W Escorts had the sideplates blown off.
Jim
458winshooter
New member
Spanish handguns
Llama is another brand that was made there.I have a Super Commanche that was produced in the early 80's in 44 mag that is a clone of a model 29 Smith and Wesson with a few changes,mainly a ribbed 6 in barrel that I have not seen on a 29.The cylinder walls are a bit thicker as well I think.It will use the same speed loader that a 29 will.
Llama is another brand that was made there.I have a Super Commanche that was produced in the early 80's in 44 mag that is a clone of a model 29 Smith and Wesson with a few changes,mainly a ribbed 6 in barrel that I have not seen on a 29.The cylinder walls are a bit thicker as well I think.It will use the same speed loader that a 29 will.
I have owned several .380's including a NAA gaurdian, Ruger LCP, and a Walther PPK/S and they all went down the road in favor of a Star DK. I cary it daily in the summer and it has never failed, plus it has real sights and a safety! I only bought it because it was realy cheap and looked like a mini 1911 but I liked it so much I sold my other 380's and bought a second DK.