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Is there anything better than 30-06?
- Thread starter BoogieMan
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Gunplummer
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"Actually, it is every ones favorite one gun to do all if they are being honest with them selves." What a ridicules statement. I have had 100's of guns (Literally) in my lifetime with a few 30-06's thrown in. I have no use for them and sold the last one years ago. I would pick one up if it had some collector value and was cheap enough, but would not buy one to use. If I don't need a .300 Magnum, I sure don't need a 30-06.
The 30-06 is the very best choice for the one-gun hunter.
Really? Of the 4 major US general purpose calibers (.30-06, .270, .308 and .7mm mag) as well as a vast array of less popular but similar calibers like .280 and 7x57 the majority of the time you could swap one for another and the hunter basically wouldn't notice. But in the rare cases where there is a difference, .30-06 is rarely the desirable choice:
- .308 is chambered in smaller, lighter, handier guns
- .270 and 7mag shoot flatter
- 7mag has higher sectional density meaning better penetration, more through shots, and thus better blood trails
- 7mag has better BCs for the same weight bullet meaning more retained energy at range
- .308 and .270 have less recoil
Really the only advantage the .30-06 has over the 7mm mag is the ability to load slightly heavier bullets, but as we saw earlier in this thread that's not enough to allow it to ethically address larger game like bison and the great bears.
The one-gun hunter would be far better served by one of the other three common options depending on their recoil tolerance.
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Yes, really. The 30-06 successfully covers more territory than any of the alternatives that you mentioned. - And does not burn out barrels.
Over-all, it is clearly the superior choice for the one-gun hunter.
I am not a one-gun hunter but if I were, I would not have to agonize over what cartridge to have that one rifle chambered for. - The 30-06 Springfield.
The rifle? - The Winchester model 70 Sporter, with its 24" barrel and sufficient weight to tame the recoil of the heavier loads.
Over-all, it is clearly the superior choice for the one-gun hunter.
I am not a one-gun hunter but if I were, I would not have to agonize over what cartridge to have that one rifle chambered for. - The 30-06 Springfield.
The rifle? - The Winchester model 70 Sporter, with its 24" barrel and sufficient weight to tame the recoil of the heavier loads.
Still can't list an overall cartridge that is more versatile with huge range of powders and bullets that work for it and are readily available let alone ammo.
True, just like the 870 pump is in shotguns - versatile, can do a lot of different things, but it is not the best for anything in particular.
There are better choices for varmints, small antelope-sized game, elk, and big bears. For someone who has to, or can only, own one rifle? Sure, as long as they realize everything is a compromise in one way or another; just like the 870 pump - "Jack of all trades, Master of none".
Yes, really. The 30-06 successfully covers more territory than any of the alternatives that you mentioned. - And does not burn out barrels.
What is this "territory"? Be specific. What situation would the .30-06 cover that can't be covered with a 7mm mag?
Also, barrel burn out is irrelevant. My 7mm mag averages about 4 rounds shot per animal taken (3 zero confirmation, and I've never lost or missed a game animal) . Let's say the barrel does burn out in 1200 rounds. I shot about 100 before I started hunting with it deciding on a scope and getting the gun set up the way I want. So the day I decide the barrel is done, I'll have killed 275 game animals with it. At that point a) I'll be long dead and b) I will have spend 10s if not 100s of of thousands of dollars in tag application fees, traveling to hunts, getting animals processed, etc. Is a $700 barrel & gunsmithing fee really going to be that big a deal at that point?
Really the only advantage the .30-06 has over the 7mm mag is the ability to load slightly heavier bullets, but as we saw earlier in this thread that's not enough to allow it to ethically address larger game like bison and the great bears.
Well my step dads father took something like 8 Brown bear with a 30-06. Until the boutiques came along, it was THE cartridge for AK. One of those is the biggest bear I ever saw, head the size of a front of a jeep.
I don't know if I call 50+ grains slight.
Darned if he did not take dozens of Elk and hundreds of deer with that same caliber when he lived in Idaho (yep, I seen them thar pictures, they were serious hunters).
My dad shot at least 8 deer with his 06 (of course we tend to want a big gun when hunting up here, the Brown bears also haunt that same deer happy territory)
Bison?: Lets see, 10s of millions were taken with what? 45-70? And an 06 is not ethical?
With the right bullet you could ethically hunt elephants (and I know its not a show stopper like the big doubles) . Ideal maybe not, but capable, certainly
Is a $700 barrel & gunsmithing fee really going to be that big a deal at that point?
No, just annoying, seriously annoying.
Actually .45-70 more or less post-dated the buffalo hunting. But the wide range of Sharps, Remington, Ballard, etc. cartridges that were used aren't that different.
And the .45-70 is MUCH better for buffalo than the .30-06. Not even close. See the previous discussion in this thread for how inadequate the .30-06 is in that role.
And the .45-70 is MUCH better for buffalo than the .30-06. Not even close. See the previous discussion in this thread for how inadequate the .30-06 is in that role.
Not really, since 10 months of the year there's nothing worth hunting with it here. But say I was annoyed, I could drive over to Sportsman's Warehouse and have a new M70 7mag in about 30 minutes for a few hundred more than the re-barrel. The cost is still trivial compared to all those hunts.No, just annoying, seriously annoying.
Barrel burnout is a boogeyman for hunting guns. It never happens, even in absurd calibers like 6.5-284. Target shooting is different.
.Not really, since 10 months of the year there's nothing worth hunting with it here. But say I was annoyed, I could drive over to Sportsman's Warehouse and have a new M70 7mag in about 30 minutes for a few hundred more than the re-barrel. The cost is still trivial compared to all those hunts.
Barrel burnout is a boogeyman for hunting guns. It never happens, even in absurd calibers like 6.5-284. Target shooting is different
Answering the last first a fine 7 RM my brother had suddenly went to @!# and it was a 1 MOA or better. Hunter all its life but it liked the hot rounds. So I believe it can happen.
I won't claim it was or did, but off it went after 40 years, and seriously off.
As for cost, well to some its not a big deal others it is, I also do not value things purely by money. Hated to see the 7mm go, lot of good memories wrapped up in that. So at least to some, even if its not your gun it can be annoying.
johnwilliamson062
Moderator
Plenty of elephants downed with 30-06 class cartridges before African Hunting was big business.
I have one 30-06, a Garand. Seriously considering selling it. A 6.5 just makes a lot more sense for hunting in NA. Probably wait to see if Henry makes a 6.5 Long Ranger that has been filling my dreams.
I have one 30-06, a Garand. Seriously considering selling it. A 6.5 just makes a lot more sense for hunting in NA. Probably wait to see if Henry makes a 6.5 Long Ranger that has been filling my dreams.
AirForceShooter
New member
American king : 30.06
African King: 375 H&H
AFS
African King: 375 H&H
AFS
Plenty of elephants downed with 30-06 class cartridges before African Hunting was big business.
Not really......: http://chuckhawks.com/bell_elephants.htm
......Walter D.M. Bell has become a legend among elephant hunters due to his great success in the ivory trade during the golden age of hunting in East Africa..........He shot exactly 1,011 elephants; about 800 of them were shot with Rigby-made 7x57mm (.275 Rigby) rifles and round nose 173 grain military ammo.
He shot elephants with a Mannlicher-Schoenauer 6.5x54mm carbine using the long 159 grain FMJ bullets and noted that it was probably the most beautiful rifle he ever had, but gave it up due to faulty ammunition......
The '06 was an outstanding cartridge back in it's infancy hence why we have earned the utmost respect of the M1. However I have both an M1 and an M1A and handloading the two calibers side by side there is no major accuracy or velocity advantage the '06 has over a 308. Basically the difference lies in downrange bullet energy which the '06 has a slight advantage. The downside from a handloader perspective is the fact you are loading 47+ gr of powder (-06) vs 41+ gr of powder (308) to achieve similar ballistics. All depends on your specific ballistic needs. At the end of a range trip shooting my M1 my shoulder aches but none the less I love my -06 Garand !
Generally the medium and large game in NA can be split up into 3 categories of increasing toughness:
- deer & black bears
- elk & moose
- the great bears and bison
Most other less commonly hunted species still fall into one of those bins.
The .300 Savage is fine for the first two, but somewhat range limited due to the low velocity. On elk/moose type game I would recommend heavy premium bullets (bonded/partition). Where the .300 Savage is weak is at range - you're only going to be able to stay in the operating window for the typical hunting bullet out to 150-200y. Past that, terminal performance will suck.
In my opinion it is not suitable for the great bears and bison. While those animals have certainly been taken with lesser guns (I'm sure all NA game species have been poached with a .22 at some point) there's simply too much chance of leaving a wounded animal. For those species typically you'd use a .33+ caliber magnum or a .34+ caliber non-magnum.
There's a big difference between a hunting rifle and a stopping rifle too. If you're concerned about stopping a charging bear or bison at short distance, I would want another notch up with a focus on penetration - .375H&H, 12ga with hard slugs, .45-70, .50 Alaskan or their ballistic twins or betters.
- deer & black bears
- elk & moose
- the great bears and bison
Most other less commonly hunted species still fall into one of those bins.
The .300 Savage is fine for the first two, but somewhat range limited due to the low velocity. On elk/moose type game I would recommend heavy premium bullets (bonded/partition). Where the .300 Savage is weak is at range - you're only going to be able to stay in the operating window for the typical hunting bullet out to 150-200y. Past that, terminal performance will suck.
In my opinion it is not suitable for the great bears and bison. While those animals have certainly been taken with lesser guns (I'm sure all NA game species have been poached with a .22 at some point) there's simply too much chance of leaving a wounded animal. For those species typically you'd use a .33+ caliber magnum or a .34+ caliber non-magnum.
There's a big difference between a hunting rifle and a stopping rifle too. If you're concerned about stopping a charging bear or bison at short distance, I would want another notch up with a focus on penetration - .375H&H, 12ga with hard slugs, .45-70, .50 Alaskan or their ballistic twins or betters.
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