Is there any gun control that "works?"

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drstrangelove57

Inactive
An odd question for a place like this, but it has been on my mind lately. I'm a serious supporter of RTKBA, and usually oppose any sort of gun regulation, even the ones that the NRA says is okay.

That said, I'm curious as to whether or not any gun control laws could be effective at cutting crime. One handgun a month laws, restrictions on certain types of weapons, magazine capacity, etc. Obviously these are all unconstitutional, but if that weren't a problem, could they have merit? Do our current laws help in any way?
 
I don't have a problem with the background check, although it doesn't always catch evildoers.
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It doesn't always catch them, and it can't always catch them, but it can make it significantly more difficult for a criminal to get ahold of a gun. It increases the odds that he'll wind up arrested or dead (preferably the former) in search of a gun rather than armed and dangerous.

It's probably about the only form of gun control where I think maybe the pros actually outweigh the cons. I say "maybe" because I've heard enough stories regarding people being denied who shouldn't have been (can be fixed eventually, but their rights were still tangibly violated) to wonder whether it really does have too much of an impact on law-abiding gunowners.

But, providing such a system was kept to an incredibly high level of accuracy and "instant" (within minutes, not hours, which in its current form it is) I'd say it's something I support. It'd probably even be found Constitutional, if it ever came down to it (it does provide a limitation on a personal right, but would probably meet strict scrutiny).


I can't think of any others, though. And even the value of background checks is pretty limited.

EDIT: And potential for abuse high, of course.
 
There was a time when guns were much easier to come by. Mail order, sold at hardware stores, hell, even Sears had 'em. Wasn't nearly as much crime then. The problem is not easy acess, it's the increase in the number of people willing to abuse them. That blame falls on soceity, but society always looks for a scapegoat for it's mistakes.
 
There's no single magic bullet (no pun intended) to any problem, which is the problem with simple solutions that take into account only one factor. However, if by "gun control" you mean a reduction in gun violence rather than mere gun restrictions - the two are not the same - I can't help but think that culture is the first best choice. As bushidomosquito pointed out, there was a time when you could buy a gun through mail order, at a hardware store, hell, and yes even through Sears, without the mass shootings we now have.

For example, used to be when some poor soul committed suicide, he offed himself. Now, nutjobs go to a mall or a school, murder as many people as they can until they reach their last bullet or two, and then dispatch themselves. They want to make the news with a bigger "score" than the last nutjob, which is why they generally avoid hitting police stations, gun shows, or any other place that would frustrate getting their 15 minutes of fame on TV.

Seems to me like a lot more people these days seek mass attention without having to do anything strenuous or useful. (When's the last time the name of a scientist who developed a cure for something got lots of airplay versus the latest nutjob murderer?) Even in death, they want instant ego gratification before they go.

So I'd say culture is the best form of gun control if you wish to decrease deaths. The second best form of gun control to decrease deaths would be armed citizens.
 
Whyte's commentary is very close to being correct.

100-200 years ago, many people had some kind of spiritual upbringing and were instilled with similar moral values. Today, with both parents working in many cases, it seems that this is lacking more & more in each generation.

The media doesn't help with its promotion of "gangsta" lifestyles and depictions of anti-heroes who only think of their personal gain. Or the portrayal of corporations run by evil conspiracies of evil men ignoring the laws to make themselves powerful or rich.

One only has to look at the success of certain types of movies to see the kind of stories for which the public has a great thirst. Look at Indiana Jones, Air Force One or Murder at 1600 - stories in which the good guy prevails against serious obstacles. The same occurs in the Tom Clancy based "Jack Ryan" movies like Patriot Games and Clear and Present Danger.

These movies portray the heroes as people doing the right thing simply because it's the right thing. While they may get an award winning story out of it, recover something taken from them or simply survive, their basic motivation is doing what is right and moral.

No laws can mandate morality.
No laws can replace a sense of right and wrong.

Only society and parenting can do that.
 
Nothing but high praise for the last four posts.

I agree with the CA requirement upon purchase of a firearm that the end user shows basic competence in how to hold, load, and unload the weapon. It takes 2 minutes and shows that the recipient won't shoot himself in the foot 5 minutes after walking out the door and maybe won't sweep his neighbor at the gun range.
 
So many factors, so little time....

But here just a couple. Back in the days when guns could be bought mail order, or over the counter at nearly all stores with a hardware section, when people committed murder they got the chair. Or the rope. Or gassed. And everyone knew it. And it didn't take 20+ years before the sentence was carried out. Not like today.

AND people didn't have 24/7 TV showing violence, gun violence, and just generally rude things constantly. WE had to get our violence at the movies, or during limited hours on TV. And the rude, crude stuff just wasn't shown.

Do you think a couple of generations of that might have some effect?

And one more thing, there was a time in this country when you could insult someone, even get into a fistfight and the cops knew it was none of their business, unless someone went to the hospital, and sometimes not even then. Defending a woman's honor was a valid reason to throw a punch. But not a valid reason to shoot someone. Sadly, We aren't that nation anymore.
 
Any Gun Control That works?

As long as politicians can accept money from "donations" and lobbyists are around no laws will be passed for any reason without bias. If politicians could vote only based off what the people in the districts they represent wanted this country would be a strange patch work of laws. Texans and Californians have different views on the same laws. It is a complete duality. Gun Legislation will not work. Look at this forum, they cant even agree on which is the best firearm ever made. Same with society not everyone will agree on everything, and blanket legislation like removal of all firearms is not freedom. Gun Control is not the problem crime is the problem. Law abiding citizens do not need gun control because they do not break the law. Criminals need the gun control. Go after the criminals with your gun control legislation. Leave my guns alone, they havent hurt anyone.
And trying to stop the "lone wolf" gunman is a silly waste of time and money. Example the Va Tech killer, law abiding, described as friendly and kind. Then goes on a shooting rampage. Who knew? He and he alone. You can prepare for that but not stop it. So passing laws to stop potential criminals:rolleyes:.....there is a good one.
 
AND people didn't have 24/7 TV showing violence, gun violence, and just generally rude things constantly. WE had to get our violence at the movies, or during limited hours on TV. And the rude, crude stuff just wasn't shown.
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Nor did we have a constant stream of male enhancement ads during shows that would otherwise be great for kids to watch...now there's something that can induce rage.
 
I know it doesnt works completely but I do not mind the instant check system. One of the things that needs to be change with it though is the inclusion of mental health records. The VA Tech killer had one and if it would have been included in the insta-check he might have been stopped from purchasing a gun. Of course that wouldn’t have stopped him from finding some other way wreak havoc. I whole heartily agree that gun control of any type is a mere band-aide for the more serous and growing morally bankrupt society we live in.
 
I don't think any gun control "could be effective at cutting crime". Some laws, regulations, requirements could surely prevent someone from doing something, but there is always going to be someone else more determined, and more able to bypass those laws and still get a gun, and if not a gun, then some other weapon that will inflict harm and pain on innocent people.

When those laws start to interfere with my ability to get a gun, one of those innocent bystanders, etc. then not only are they not effective laws, but counter-productive at preventing anything, but rather cause a scenario with more victims unarmed. Prime example is the school gun-free zones. I would be all for a gun-free zone at school, if I thought that the likelihood of it actually being a gun-free zone would occur, and not just a place for a crazy to go off.

One other thing I find that would help lower the rate of violence, gun related and otherwise is a sense of personal accountability for ones self and a higher regard for human life. This is, IMHO, one of the single greatest causes of violence and the need for these school shooters and mall ninjas to kill. Parents are not teaching or instilling in their kids the value of a human life. Lack of parents instilling this, added to the violence seen on tv everyday through cartoons, daily shows, primetime shows, etc. it is no wonder we have the violence we have in society. There are a million other little things that could be done to 'help' the situation, but none of them would ever be a one-stop cure. Take tv's out of kids rooms until they are responsible enough to watch things, know what things are bad, etc. Watch shows together, and take away the babysitter effect of tv.

Overall, no laws would ever work, its the work of the parents that would help curb violence in the long run. That with a better justice system that puts away offenders for a long time, sometimes forever.
 
quote: bushidomosquito
There was a time when guns were much easier to come by. Mail order, sold at hardware stores, hell, even Sears had 'em. Wasn't nearly as much crime then. The problem is not easy acess, it's the increase in the number of people willing to abuse them. That blame falls on soceity, but society always looks for a scapegoat for it's mistakes.
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Exactly.

The problem with gun control is... it controls only the law abiding citizen. It does NOT control the criminals. Gun control is meant to control the citizen, not to deter crime.
 
The only gun control law that is effective in reducing crime is the one that allows me to carry a gun for self-defense. And I should not have to have government permission to do that.
 
BillCA said:
No laws can mandate morality.
No laws can replace a sense of right and wrong.
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Also you can't legislate against lunacy. I'd be willing to wager that everyone on this fourm has nothing but utter contempt and disdain for school shooters, mall shooters, work place shooters, ect. We also have nothing but sympathy and compassion for their victims. As well as the victims of all crimes perpetrated with firearms. Yet we recognize the fact that curtailing the rights of the sane and good, who are the vast, vast majority in this country does very little or nothing to stop the insane and evil ones.
In fact the less good people who posess firearms the more free the bad are to act.

I've heard all the reasoning behind both sides of the gun debate, just as most all of you reading this have and for the life of me I still can't fathom how the antis actually believe that taking fierarms away from the sane and law abiding, will make us safer.
 
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