Is the MP5 a true submachine gun,how many bursts does it fire, and other questions

Hell, I saw a MP5 at the last gunshow I went to that had more trigger-group selector setting than I would know what to do with.

I liked the pictographic expression of full-auto, though... a long line of little red projectiles running all the way down the side of the gun. It also had at least one burst setting (maybe more). Anyway, the whole side of the gun was cluttered with little red projectile expressions for the selector.

Wacky. You would think the Germans could come up with selector symbols that didn't take up every square centimeter of flat surface on the side of the gun.
 
My PD bought four MP5 SEFs and two SDs direct from H&K. We used them on semi most of the time but went to operator controlled two round bursts at room distance. I never had a problem putting two, two shot bursts into training targets or a few bad guys. If you train properly and often enough you will instinctively fall back on that training. I did see one guy loose it and empty an entire magazine once but that was the only time.
 
Personally, I'd go for only the SEF trigger group. I dislike burst as that's an issue of training. The burst group has more parts and is more difficult to work on (OK, not really that much more difficult) but I'm given to believe the fewer the parts, the better. If you train yourself and your trigger finger, you'll find that you can easily get a two or three shot burst off regularly when the selector is set to full auto.
 
Beating a dead horse...deader.....

I am sure that some people disagree on the burst issue, and I cant speak to others experiences, but I can attest to my own. Being in the $hit isnt what holly-wood shows it as being. Training will *help* (and be what most of the time will) keep you alive, and in almost all cases make you *better* than the opposition. But when it comes to trigger fingers... Well lets just say that I've seen experienced operators dump entire mags and not totally realize it..... I've even done it myself...

When you're in the mess and you only have a couple hundred rounds for your main, you need to make every round count as two. You have to keep in mind that not only will you need ammo for point-to-point confrontations but you'll also need to reserve a good portion of it for when you have to bug-out & in a hurry.

Yes we did carry full autos. All of our weapons (with exception to side-arms) were capable of ammo-dumping, but what we all choose to use and trained with was either Burst or single….. always (the only time we trained on full-auto is when we were running exfil. Drills).

There is an ol adage that says: "The more you train, the more things Mr. Murphey @#$%S with..." And believe me... if it can go wrong.. it will... and
ALWAYS when it's the worst possible time...

I personally do not believe in "train to 'count' your rounds". Thats bull-$hit that will 100% of the time fail, and it WILL get you and your teammate killed. There is WAY to much that an operator must think/ponder/consider/react to/act upon to stay alive and keep his swimbuddy/boatcrew alive too, and do it all at one time... all-the-while dogging bullets, explosive rockets, and balls of metal that go BOOM!... to 'count rounds'…. It’s asinine. And if you’re on full-auto, that is exactly what you HAVE to do. Subconscious or not, no amount of training will teach you to be 100% accurate 100% of the time. IT’S JUST NOT POSSIBLE. For operators to be as effective as they are, to do the things they do, and live through the $hit they’re routinely in, they have to be down right surgical in EVERYTHING undertaken. 4 to 14 man teams, against (up to) several 100… if you’re not 100% on your game, you’re NOT coming home (at least outside a pine box).

Its a LOT more accurate to keep your weapon on single or bust and, through a LOT of training, program your mind to subconsciously keep tally of how many times you've pulled the trigger vise how many times the gun went 'bang'. If its on 3SB, you know you have 10 pulls and reload & if your on full auto, its impossible to have each depress of the fun-bar, extract exactly a set amount of rounds- there is absolutely NO possible way of exactly , 100% of the time measure your rounds. Remember that an operator MUST at all times have an accurate running tally of his inventory and a damn good idea of that of his teammates.

One can only carry so much ammo, you're in a small group of really bad-ass men that are mean as hell and scared $****-less, and you have to make every round count and under NO circumstance can you just 'spray and pray', because 1 round can and often does make all the difference in the world as to if you or your swimbuddy's coming home… alive.

Its documented that a 12-man strike team can lay down the same firepower as 100 regular infantry. BELIEVE ME, its true. These operators ARE THAT GOOD. It's amazing that they can sling that much fire power with a fraction of the ammo that 100 first-liners carry. They do it by living by the words "better to be 'smart' than sorry". Trigger control is very important, but why would you want to give Murphy something else to dick with? If you're on Burst its a lot harder for him to make you 'panic squeeze' off more than 3 rounds. all that training teaches you is how to out-think the enemy and how to *partially* control your panic)

Im also referring to the 9mm almost exclusively because it’s not all that effective.. its really a crap combat round - for CQB the M4 SOPMOD is preferred. At close range the .556/223 round is BRUTAL... outside of extremely close range, many operators are switching to the 6.8mmSPC or choosing to use the indigenous AK’s of their area. BUT if the mission dictates, the MP5 has a very dear & respected roll (and will ALWAYS have a dear place in my heart) - especially where over-penetration is a major concern – I.E. Plaster walled buildings, aircraft, VIP protection etc…. Even with the M4 & 6.8 it’s almost never on any other setting than single. People that train on full auto only, watch way to many movies, and have very little idea what combat really is. Even the infantry teaches/trains/and shoots simi only… there is a much greater reason for that than “just to save on the cost of ammo”… It’s a tactfully brilliant way of training, and it’s the KISS principle applied …. “Keep It Simple, Stupid”.

Anyway Im tipsy and long winded…. Enough said.

akviper... How did your LEO departmet purchase the MP5s directly from H&K? H&K, to my knowledge, is legally not allowed to sell directly to civilians. (yes.. police are civilians :-). Due to the 'fair vendor act' they must go through actual dealer(s)... Just like Ruger does not sell directly to individuals or units. They even have child companies that they use to sell directly to the Military. Are you sure they purchased them directly from H&K? My old military unit even had to go through a local out-in-town SOT for our NFA. (then again, that might have been a budgetary vise a legal thing).
 
The first four MP5s were purchased in 1984. The city purchase orders were made out to H&K and the invoices were from H&K. The guns came with copies of import forms from H&K Germany. I had a contact at H&K that handled LE sales and I think her name was Nancy. We purchased mags and parts for several years after from the same person. All phone contacts and correspondence went to H&K on the East coast. After we bought our guns at least three other city PDs and the Alaska State Troopers purchased guns from H&K. I didn't handle the acquisition of our post 86 guns so I do not have the details of the purchase other than to say I believe the forms and papers were similar to the pre 86 guns.

I was only in two melees where more than one magazine was used. I agree that round count is low on the list of things to do. We only used full auto for close range inside work or vehicle rescue. The MP5 is great for indoor use as most LE folks do not have easy access to suppressors for the 556 guns.
 
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