Is the MP5 a true submachine gun,how many bursts does it fire, and other questions

E

Etraveller

New member
Hello all.
The firearm I'm looking at is a MP5. 'sub-machine gun', 9mm calibre, retractable buttstock (most likely MP5 A3).
Firstly,many definitions of a submachine gun are a select fire weapon that fires pistol ammo and can be used either as a semi-auto or as an automatic firearm.
The MP5 generally fires in bursts, even though I have never yet come across a true full auto MP5 (they say a ratchet, is added that converts from full auto to burst).
Does anyone know what the BATFE, AFTE, NRA or other body says what a submachine gun is?

2. Does the MP5 come with a preset amount of cartridges that are discharged in a burst, e.g. 2,3 or 4? or can the burst vary between 2 two 4 (or even 5 rounds), when the trigger is fully depressed and held in the burst mode?

3. What needs to be adjusted/modified on the MP5, to adjust the rate of fire in the burst mode?

Any comments greatly appreciated.
Etraveller
 
The MP5 is a true machinegun. The original MP5 was full auto and semi-automatic only. After the US came up with "burst" modes, especially for the M16A2, HK added burst modes to the MP5 series. It now comes in any combination of full auto, 2-round, 3-round and semi-automatic modes. The mode of fire is chosen by a selector switch on the side of the receiver. Unlike the M16A2/M4, the MP5 does not use a ratchet to get burst fire.

ATF considers any firearm that fires more than 2 bullets with a single pull of the trigger to be a machinegun. As such, even firearms that have burst fire only are still considered machineguns.

The standard definition of Submachinegun is any fully automatic long gun firing a pistol rated cartridge. It originated with the Thompson submachinegun.
 
ATF considers any firearm that fires more than 2 bullets with a single pull of the trigger to be a machinegun.

minor technical correction: "more than one (1) bullet," but we know what you meant.;)
 
Does anyone know what the BATFE, AFTE, NRA or other body says what a submachine gun is?
Click to expand...

There are only 'machineguns' and 'non-machineguns'. There are no legal sub-categories of machineguns.
 
ATF considers any firearm that fires more than 2 bullets with a single pull of the trigger to be a machinegun.

minor technical correction: "more than one (1) bullet," but we know what you meant.
Click to expand...

What about some derringers and SxS shotguns?
 
"Sub- Machine gun..."

Yes it is, and "Good Grief to the rest of ^^^^ that... Yes, technically a "Fully automatic, pistol cartridge chambered/ firing weapon IS a "Sub-Machine Gun..!"
(But yes technically also & in agreement w/ the others so as Not to start a "Scuffle"; the ATF makes no particular distinction concerning "Sub.")

There are also "Light", "Medium", and "Heavy" Machine Guns..! :) It's too early to be "Anal" guys..! Must have more coffee..! (LOL..!)

Incidentally, there are various versions out there in various configs. - I prefer a 3 mode selector;
i.e. - single, 3 rd. burst, & full auto...
 
Technically, a double derringer or a sxs shotgun that was deliberately made to fire both rounds with a single trigger pull might be a machinegun, but I think it would more likely just be a pain, especially if the derringer were one of those in .45 Colt or .410.

Jim
 
Incidentally, there are various versions out there in various configs. - I prefer a 3 mode selector;
Click to expand...

I prefer the three mode selector also, Auto-Semi-Safe or in HK lingo S-E-F. If you want "bursts", learn trigger control. With practice, you can fire single shots, 2 and 3 round bursts quite easily with the selector on AUTO.

"Burst" modes is nothing more than a mechanical fix to overcome lack of training. It was invented by the US military because it is cheaper and faster than teaching troops how to shoot properly.
 
There are several trigger groups available for the MP-5.

There is a group with S, E, F. Safe, Einz (one) and full auto.
There is another fancier group with safe, one, burst and full auto.
 
Etraveller,

The MP5 is an awesome gun. I'm not sure what you mean about looking at one. The number of legally transferable machine guns is pretty low making the prices quite high. The last I saw, a full auto MP5 was going for over $25,000. If I had that type of disposable income, I would consider it, but my wife would definately shoot me for it.

The MP5 is an incredibly flat shooting gun and fairly easy to control. The gas operated recoil system is the main reason for that. Small groups are possible with short bursts and single shot accuracy is phenomenal. I really like the sighting system as well which features a slanted rotating cylinder to open up or close down the rear sight.

If you are really getting one, congrats. You won't be disappointed.
 
Got Lead? said:
Well aren't there two triggers? On a SXS?
Click to expand...

Simple answer, there are sometimes two triggers on SXS and O/U shotguns that can cause them to fire both barrels simultaneously. These, however, are exempt as they are considered "sporting arms". The same way that a regular shotguns that shoots multiple pellets is exempt because it is a sporting arm.
 
Stephen426, they aren't quite that expensive. http://gunsamerica.com/search.cgi

Look at the prices that LEO's get them for. It's about $1,000. Last I heard the military gets M16s for about the same price. Supply and demand. For civilians there is a fixed supply and a pretty large demand, therefore the price shot (no pun intended) up to about 16Xs what a new one costs!
 
Burst Fire...

As MP5 pointed out, training is essential... The SEALS, and other SOCOM units use the burst mode for combat reasons... It is absolutely impossible to count your rounds in combat. I dont care if your ST6, 1SFOD/D, GSG9, KSK, FFL, SAS, whatever... in the heat of a real fire-fight you cannot count rounds... With non-burst guns, SOCOM uses Simi-mode ONLY. All training for combat does is teaches you to control panic. Even in controlled panic, you will still 'hold' the trigger down longer than what you need to. The burst is expecially useful in CQB (with the crappy 9mm round), as you will hit a target with 2 or 3 crappy rounds.

Hence the MP5-N (N for Navy.. 0-1-2-F trigger group - made spacificially for Naval Special Warfar Group / CQB).


The only time operators use straigt full auto is in exfiltration/extraction/cover fire. Its simi or burst only for all other uses.

You can train all you want, but full auto fire is absolutely combat useless unless you have to lay serious cover fire.
 
$25,000 for a MP5, a friend has one with a registered auto sear in 9,40,and 45 I believe. With the A host weapon I think he selling it for around $15,000.

Prices must be going up in your parts.
 
MP5 prices..

They typical and adverage MP5 will cost about 16 : 18k.

The Registered Receiver 3-pin swing downs (non sear conversions) will cost a substantial bit more (20:25k). I've seen execelent condition MP5's that cost upwards of 30K.

If you want an MP5, get a host from Atlantic Arms or Bob Cat Weapons (1.5:2k), and a registered sear ($8:10k) send it to Ralph at RDTS (http://www.rdts.com) and have him work his *magic* on it. You'll get the entire package back, with your selection of trigger grouping, restamped MP5, and will look/function better than the factory models ever did. Ralph is a true master with the MP5. He can even take the A3 and turn it into the SD with (from first hand experience) a suppressor that is more user friendly/quiet/and a LOT less maintenance required.

Little known fact about the MP5... There are no MP5's on the market that actually came from H&K factory as an MP5. H&K only sold the MP5 to the Military. They didn't even sell them to Law Enforcement.

Every MP5 that is on the civilian market is a conversion of some sort. There are some genuine 'factory MP5's' but these are just SP89's taken off the simi-auto line and had a full auto bolt & sear installed in them. Restamping was done by SOT's in the 80's. You will not find a single civilian legal MP5 or dealer sample for that matter, that came directly off of the actual MP5 line...

T.Dyer, RDTS, Flemming, Vector, and various others did a lot of conversions. Matter of fact the most common MP5 you will find out there is from Flemming.

There were two ways of registering a MP5. You could register the 'receiver or the acutal gun' or just the 'sear'.

If you want the most factory accurate MP5, you will need to find a 3-pin swingdown Registered Receiver. Most MP5's (about 90% of them) have the trigger pack clipped & pinned on. They can still be removed, but it takes a lot more effort than just pulling out 3 pins.
 
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