Is the .327 Federal Magnum dead? -POLL-

[Dragline45]

I think the only real advantage of the .327 is that it lets you fit an extra round in a otherwise 5 shot J frame sized snub. Besides that I don't see any real application for it. Then again I was never a fan of pushing small bullets at very fast speeds, if I need more power I will move up to a large sized caliber not add more speed.

 

[newfrontier45]

I don't see any real application for it.

There has never been a better cartridge for small game and varmints than the .327. It does what we have been doing for years with heavily loaded .32-20's with better case life and the ease of carbide dies.

 

[PoiDog]

I have a GP100 in .327 Federal Magnum. I like this cartridge a lot, but I do handload.

I see the ammo pretty regularly around my place, at least 3 stores carry it. Federal American Eagle usually.

I wish there was a lever gun in this caliber, I'd buy it in an instant. Well, 24 hours since this is Illinois.

.32 H&R Magnum is available around here too. Maybe it's only dead in some areas?

 

[buck460XVR]

originally popsted by newfrontier45:

Where it "fits" is in a Single Six or K-frame as a sporting gun. Problem is that Ruger and S&W aren't smart enough to offer it and market it that way. Forget all this self defense nonsense. That market is already saturated.

While the SD/HD market is saturated, it's still where the most demand is. Especially when compared to the small market share that those that hunt small game with centerfire handguns comprise. While it may be the best damn small game centerfire cartridge ever made, if there's not more than a few folks out there to attract, marketing folks won't waste their time. I think a carbine in .327 would be a great yote'/truck gun, but in a handgun, at handgun ranges, I can do the same with my .357s loaded with light bullets. But the .327 was designed for SD/HD. Giving someone the performance against 2 legged varmints of a .357 in a small framed revolver, without the recoil/noise/muzzle flash...while holding an extra round, thus it was marketed as such. Considering it has only been on the shelves for 5 years and the company that introduced it really dropped the ball on promoting it, I think it has done fairly well.

 

[22-rimfire]

I guess. if talking factory, then you are correct, although you can still use .38s on the low side.

Exactly my thoughts. That is precisely why I didn't buy a 327 Federal Mag. But that could change. I would like to shoot one however and make my own judgement.

 

[newfrontier45]

But the .327 was designed for SD/HD.

Doesn't really matter what it was "designed for". It is a superb small game and varmint cartridge that benefits greatly from a more sporting length barrel and fits neatly into the Single Six platform. Something that cannot be said for the .357. There's a massive performance gap between the .22Mag and .357, which I believe is too in-between in the field.

Judging by the numbers of big bore revolvers, single actions, single shots and the like on the market, I'd say that self defense is far from the only purpose people use a handgun for. Seriously, if there is room for your 7lb .460, there is certainly room for a .327 Single Six.

 

[horselips]

I had high hopes for the .327 Federal. Lots of power, and it would offer a sub-compact J frame-ish carry revolver a cylinder much narrower than possible in .38 Special / .357 Magnum. Width is a critical dimension in a carry gun, and even the cylinder on a 5 chambered .22 WMR NAA Mini-Revolver is close to a full inch in diameter. There are .380 ACP autoloaders narrower than that. I have found that all revolvers chambered in a .38 caliber round are simply far too wide for easy and completely discrete pocket carry. Maybe with modern metallurgy a gun maker will manufacture a truly compact, truly light weight, pocket-able revolver with a 5 round cylinder in .327 Federal. I would have more faith in an enlarged NAA Mini than a shrunken Smith or Ruger.

 

[buck460XVR]

Originally posted by newfrontier45:

Doesn't really matter what it was "designed for". It is a superb small game and varmint cartridge that benefits greatly from a more sporting length barrel and fits neatly into the Single Six platform. Something that cannot be said for the .357. There's a massive performance gap between the .22Mag and .357, which I believe is too in-between in the field.

While it may not matter to you....it does matter to those producing the product, and their marketing people. Makers of muscle cars do not not target little old ladies in their ads and promotions, even tho a few may buy them. They put their advertising monies into the market share the car was designed for. While a few may want a .327 in a sporting firearm, apparently there isn't enough market out there for firearm manufacturers to target. Like I said, I really think the .327 in a carbine would be a sweet round. But alas, there is nobody that produces one. I'm guessing there won't be either unless there is a sudden surge in .327 sales. Too bad.

Originally posted by newfrontier45:

Judging by the numbers of big bore revolvers, single actions, single shots and the like on the market, I'd say that self defense is far from the only purpose people use a handgun for. Seriously, if there is room for your 7lb .460, there is certainly room for a .327 Single Six

I never said SD/HD is the only purpose for a handgun. I said the .327 was designed mainly as a SD/HD round and thus was touted as such. Big difference. While there certainly may be room for a Single Six chambered in .327 and an X-Frame revolver chambered in .460 S&W, apparently there's only a demand for one of them. Again it's too bad. As you stated, the .327 does fit a niche for some folks. Whether the blame falls on Ruger and other firearm manufacturers or the cartridge itself for it's lack of acceptance by the masses is a question yet to be answered on internet forums.

 

[newfrontier45]

...apparently there's only a demand for one of them.

Yes because we all know that there is nothing in demand that manufacturers don't fill the need. Please. Besides, sometimes the demand sparks the supply, sometimes it's the other way around. I'm sure there was a million shooters begging for the .460 cartridge before it was introduced. THAT is what marketing is for.

 

[Dragline45]

Maybe with modern metallurgy a gun maker will manufacture a truly compact, truly light weight, pocket-able revolver with a 5 round cylinder in .327 Federal. I would have more faith in an enlarged NAA Mini than a shrunken Smith or Ruger.

I have been calling for that for a couple years, even started a thread on it, and many members here said that there would be no demand for it which I found crazy. I don't think many realize just how much smaller a 5 shot .32 caliber revolver could be made. It would be the ultimate pocket gun due to its size and reliability. Made in .32acp, it could be made tiny due to the shortened cylinder, even in .327 or .32mag it would be significantly thinner than a J frame. Maybe someday, and I really do hope they do make one. I actually wrote to Ruger a few times recommending one.

 

[22-rimfire]

...million shooters begging for the .460 cartridge

I generally agree with what you say, but I can't imagine a million shooters longing or begging for the 460 S&W.

A very small 32 cal revolver could certainly be interesting in the self defense arena. Folks are now turning to the 22 WMR as that cartridge.

 

[FrankenMauser]

And why wouldn't a .38/.357, .44 (spec or mag), or .45 Colt be 'perfect' for defense .

You can't fit 6 rounds of .357 in the cylinder. And, you REALLY can't fit 6 rounds of .44 Mag or .45 Colt in a revolver anywhere near that size.

 

[ChaperallCat]

its somewhat defunct. yes they make small batches of ammunition for it, but thats not the issue.

all youve done is allowed a 32 caliber handgun to get closer to the energy levels produced by a 32-30 rifle using rifle only loads. and increased the recoil to a 357 level.

most people who bought those lightweight snubs in .327 didnt shoot much 327 feeral in it.

 

[ScotchMan]

This might be a bit harsh, but revolvers are dying. They will always sell, but new gun owners are buying semis, and old gun owners are switching in some cases. My dad, a long time S&W fan, now has a P229 on his nightstand. Dark as it may be, when these older generation shooters start going away, so will the revolver following.

That said, within the shrinking revolver market, the .327Mag is not established. I love the round, but I don't have any. I wouldn't buy the gun until I was confident the round was going to survive. I think a lot of people are in that position. If I were a business executive with a stake in the round, I would be flooding the market with very cheap, or free guns. Donating them to every charity raffle I can. Get the guns in peoples' hands, legitimize the round, and then sell the guns to people like me who were just waiting for someone else to take the risk. It's a chicken/egg situation really.

But, considering the revolver market is most likely shrinking, I think a new round that only works in revolvers is probably never going to succeed unless it somehow introduces advantages over a semi that weren't there before.

 

[Model12Win]

Well I think revolvers are probably going to get less popular in the feature but there will always be people interested in them. A lot of people trust them, just as I do. This is a good discussion guys thanks for your feedback, I think this question may have been on more than a few minds and this thread should help others who are interested in .327 Federal Magnum but just aren't ready to (excuse the pun) bite the bullet on purchasing one.

 

[Waspinator]

This might be a bit harsh, but revolvers are dying.

I don't agree. True, semi-autos have and will sell more, but the revolver market is alive and well.

In 2010 there were approx 235 pistol manufacturers and about 31 revolver manufacturers reported in the US (most of the revolver manufacturers fall under pistol manufacturers as well). In 2012, US production statistics show an average of 889,125 pistols and 352,625 revolvers produced for that year. That is not that far apart considering the lop-sided amount of producers.

Also, the revolver/shotgun sales, while on the decline since the mid-80's, have stabilized between 2009 and 2011 and are actually on the rise since 2012. That tells me that a lot of the new shooters that have entered that pool in those years are opting for revolvers/shotguns for their personal protection.

So, for now, revolvers are not dying in the least. That said, when the new shooters have been in the market longer, will they also switch over to semi-autos, causing another decline? who knows.

Disclaimer* I am a new shooter. What I posted above is results I found searching data on the inter-webs after reading the above quoted statement. So, I'm not speaking from experience, just research. That said, this new shooter is looking for a revolver for his first handgun

 

[buck460XVR]

Originally posted by ScotchMan:

This might be a bit harsh, but revolvers are dying.

I too disagree. While they may not be selling at the rate that auto-loaders are, they are still selling at a higher rate than they ever did in the past. This is far from dying. One of the fastest growing aspects of hunting sports is hunting with a handgun. Very few autoloader handguns are appropriate for medium to large game. I don't know of any popular models at all that are appropriate for dangerous game. As long as folks are hunting animals in those categories, there will always be revolvers. Another fast growing interest in the shooting sports is Cowboy Action Shooting. I've yet to see any of that done with a auto-loading handgun.


I also doubt flooding the market with "very cheap" handguns chambered in .327 will do anything but make true gun enthusiasts identify the caliber with POS firearms. Most real gun folks ain't stupid. They know what works for them and what doesn't. Same with firearm manufacturers. They are in business to make money...not give guns away free at a loss so Federal can sell ammo. They produce a model in a new caliber in hopes to create a new market. Not to take away from another that's already makin' them money. Hard to push a model/caliber that will mean loosing the sale of another model/caliber. Much better to produce a model/caliber that customers feel will be totally different than what's already available or what they already have.


No, revolvers are not dying a slow painful death and the .327 is not already dead. They both have their place and their faithful fans. Folks thought that Harley was dead back in their AMF years. They also said Ford Mustangs were dead during the mid seventies. Surprise, surprise.....Both are still alive and well.

 

[horselips]

I like revolvers and autoloaders, I own and enjoy both. However, all of the handguns I have deployed around my premises for HD, as well as my EDC gun are revolvers. There's a flexibility, versatility, reliability, safety, and power factor in revolvers that autoloaders simply cannot match.

 

[farmboy]

But the .327 was designed for SD/HD./QUOTE]

I think those that built this great little cartridge were just building a better mousetrap, just as other manufacturers build better products than their predecessors.

It's the marketing folks that ultimately decide on product placement, not engineers.

 

[Onward Allusion]

How about a 10-shot 327 mag built on the S&W X-frame with a half lug 6 inch barrel? It would make one hell of a HD gun.