kalibear45
New member
HOGWASH!
Most handguns are more accurate than the shooter. Hasn't anyone told you that before?
Most handguns are more accurate than the shooter. Hasn't anyone told you that before?
Is the 1911 harder to shoot than other pistols?
- Thread starter Monkeyleg
- Start date
Grew up shooting, BUT...
The weapons were all .22's revolvers and rifles, later Centerfire rifles and the occasional scattergun and later still, centerfire revolvers.
But my first exposure to the .45ACP wasn't till the USNavy in it's wisdom, made me into a Hospital Corpsman and therefore a noncombatent, took away my dungarees, stuffed me into marine fatigues, and issued me a sidearm!
= A 1911! I _Hated_
that thing! Yes, I could shoot it, but man, I wanted a _Rifle_!
If the US Navy wanted me to go hiking with a platoon of 'Riflemen'
I wanted a rifle too! The bad guys knew that anyone packing a sidearm was a more important target that the average groundpounder, I wanted to blend in (& shoot back).
I've read a lot of posts concerning the 'Church of the 1911'...good pistols, but in the real world, they could get you killed!
In retrospect, I never fired a shot in anger, I was far too busy.
I kinda like the .45ACP now that I'm old and mean, but my weapon of choice in this loading isn't a 1911, they are a Sig
and an FEG.
The weapons were all .22's revolvers and rifles, later Centerfire rifles and the occasional scattergun and later still, centerfire revolvers.
But my first exposure to the .45ACP wasn't till the USNavy in it's wisdom, made me into a Hospital Corpsman and therefore a noncombatent, took away my dungarees, stuffed me into marine fatigues, and issued me a sidearm!
= A 1911! I _Hated_that thing! Yes, I could shoot it, but man, I wanted a _Rifle_!
If the US Navy wanted me to go hiking with a platoon of 'Riflemen'
I wanted a rifle too! The bad guys knew that anyone packing a sidearm was a more important target that the average groundpounder, I wanted to blend in (& shoot back).
I've read a lot of posts concerning the 'Church of the 1911'...good pistols, but in the real world, they could get you killed!
In retrospect, I never fired a shot in anger, I was far too busy.
I kinda like the .45ACP now that I'm old and mean, but my weapon of choice in this loading isn't a 1911, they are a Sig
and an FEG.
I've shot many different revolvers before and semi-autos too. I think the 1911 is the easiest to be accurate with. I've found the 1911 to be much easier to shoot than other firearms, even of the same caliber. It points very naturally. John Browning knew what he was doing when he designed this one!!
Most people think the main reason Law Enforcement went from the .357 Magnum revolver to the 9mm semi-auto was because of firepower. 15 rounds is better than 6. Not true. If it was, we'd all be shooting 9's instead or our 7 or 8 round .45's. They went to the semi-auto because it was easier to shoot than revolvers. And much easier to train rookies to be accurate with them. When they finally decided that the 9mm just wasn't as good as the .357, powerwise, they went to 40's (some to .45's).
I know that's gonna cause a stink, and that there are many fine revolver shooters out there. But from personal experience, training someone to shoot (some with no previous experience at all) was much easier with a semi.
Gyp_C2
"With 158 gr specials that pistol would shoot into one hole all day long. Single action...I also learned to shoot double action with that same pistol. My next choice was a Model 66 4" in .357 Mag that would do the same at 100 yds"
One hole, with a .357 Magnum, at 100 yards??? Remind me not to get into a gun fight with you!!
Most people think the main reason Law Enforcement went from the .357 Magnum revolver to the 9mm semi-auto was because of firepower. 15 rounds is better than 6. Not true. If it was, we'd all be shooting 9's instead or our 7 or 8 round .45's. They went to the semi-auto because it was easier to shoot than revolvers. And much easier to train rookies to be accurate with them. When they finally decided that the 9mm just wasn't as good as the .357, powerwise, they went to 40's (some to .45's).
I know that's gonna cause a stink, and that there are many fine revolver shooters out there. But from personal experience, training someone to shoot (some with no previous experience at all) was much easier with a semi.
Gyp_C2
"With 158 gr specials that pistol would shoot into one hole all day long. Single action...I also learned to shoot double action with that same pistol. My next choice was a Model 66 4" in .357 Mag that would do the same at 100 yds"
One hole, with a .357 Magnum, at 100 yards??? Remind me not to get into a gun fight with you!!
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Naw, I'm just as bad with a 1911 as I am with any other pistol...but "I'm faster"...or maybe, "I look better"...whatever. Anyway, the painful truth is that shooting a handgun is (...Col. Cooper forgive me) NOT an innate human skill. There, I said it. You have to...are you ready?...WORK at it. A lot. Constantly. And no, it's not like riding a bike.
Johnny Guest
Moderator in Memoriam
An inate skill? Hardly.
nwgunman - - -
I forget a lotta things from time to time, but memory is clear on this point: Jeff Cooper never claimed shooting ANY handgun is an inate skill. Speaking of pistols in general, and perhaps of the .45 in particular, he wrote something very like, "It is like any other tool or instrument, and its use must be learned. It is harder to use well than, say, a shovel, and easier than a violin."
But, hey, guys - - - We all know how hard the 1911 is to use well. Takes a LONG time to learn it well. Expensive to shoot. Lotsa drawbacks. And, for those of you discovering these things, and regretful for putting so much time and effort and money into your 1911, I'll help you cut your losses. Any one who wants a hundred bucks for a 1911 or 1911A1 can ship it to my FFL connection and I'll send you a money order. I'll even pay shipping and the transfer fee.
No, no, don't thank me. This is just one service I provide, out of the goodness of my heart. I don't shoot the .45 particularly well, myself - - -I jus like to try occasionally.
Really, you're welcome.
Best,
Johnny
nwgunman - - -
I forget a lotta things from time to time, but memory is clear on this point: Jeff Cooper never claimed shooting ANY handgun is an inate skill. Speaking of pistols in general, and perhaps of the .45 in particular, he wrote something very like, "It is like any other tool or instrument, and its use must be learned. It is harder to use well than, say, a shovel, and easier than a violin."
But, hey, guys - - - We all know how hard the 1911 is to use well. Takes a LONG time to learn it well. Expensive to shoot. Lotsa drawbacks. And, for those of you discovering these things, and regretful for putting so much time and effort and money into your 1911, I'll help you cut your losses. Any one who wants a hundred bucks for a 1911 or 1911A1 can ship it to my FFL connection and I'll send you a money order. I'll even pay shipping and the transfer fee.
No, no, don't thank me. This is just one service I provide, out of the goodness of my heart. I don't shoot the .45 particularly well, myself - - -I jus like to try occasionally.
Really, you're welcome.
Best,
Johnny
For Danny 45...
"One hole, with a .357 Magnum, at 100 yards??? Remind me not to get into a gun fight with you!! "
...did I forget to mention it was a bigger hole
LOL...I left out some text didn't I?
I should have said it was just as easy to shoot and more accurate...I had a "little" work done on it by a guy named Clark down in La...
...it really would shoot "Jax" can size groups at that range...
"One hole, with a .357 Magnum, at 100 yards??? Remind me not to get into a gun fight with you!! "
...did I forget to mention it was a bigger hole
LOL...I left out some text didn't I?
I should have said it was just as easy to shoot and more accurate...I had a "little" work done on it by a guy named Clark down in La...
...it really would shoot "Jax" can size groups at that range...
weldonjr2001
New member
I can't imagine what could be easier to shoot than a 1911 with a decent trigger.
1911
IMHO, while the Big Auto has great acuracy potential and is a big favorite of mine, it IS difficult to MASTER, at least for Bulseye shooting, which is what I use it for. Sight radius is short, so sight alignment is critical. Minor changes in grip make a big difference. Recoil if not properly managed changes grip from shot to shot. Trigger must be quite good; too heavy really adds problems, while I've been able to overcome it with other pistols. Bore is much higher above the hand than other target gus.
It's a great pistol, and still the Bullseye standard in my book, but you really have to work at it and keep in practice.
Loads like Bullseye 3.4gr and 185 or 200 gr LSWC help a lot, as does a set of Wolff springs of the right strength.
IMHO, while the Big Auto has great acuracy potential and is a big favorite of mine, it IS difficult to MASTER, at least for Bulseye shooting, which is what I use it for. Sight radius is short, so sight alignment is critical. Minor changes in grip make a big difference. Recoil if not properly managed changes grip from shot to shot. Trigger must be quite good; too heavy really adds problems, while I've been able to overcome it with other pistols. Bore is much higher above the hand than other target gus.
It's a great pistol, and still the Bullseye standard in my book, but you really have to work at it and keep in practice.
Loads like Bullseye 3.4gr and 185 or 200 gr LSWC help a lot, as does a set of Wolff springs of the right strength.
Yes. Although it has a better trigger than most, the .45 is not intuitive or ergonomic in the least. There are a lot of things you only will know from many rounds fired down range, and usually somebody knowledgeable has to TELL you or you may never know the fine points of mastering the .45 Auto.
Anybody who tells you it is easy probably would not be someone who could teach you anything.
As Khornet insightfully said. It is easy to shoot, but DIFFICULT TO MASTER.
Anybody who tells you it is easy probably would not be someone who could teach you anything.
As Khornet insightfully said. It is easy to shoot, but DIFFICULT TO MASTER.
AC's & 45's
New member
I agree with what M1911 said:
"B*llsh*t. I agree with Jeff Cooper. I think the 1911 is one of the easiest pistols to shoot. The short, crisp trigger pull makes it far easier to shoot accurately than most guns. YMMV"
Most autos i am familiar with, in particular the 1911, are much easier for me to shoot accurately. I beleive this is mostly due the lower bore position.
"B*llsh*t. I agree with Jeff Cooper. I think the 1911 is one of the easiest pistols to shoot. The short, crisp trigger pull makes it far easier to shoot accurately than most guns. YMMV"
Most autos i am familiar with, in particular the 1911, are much easier for me to shoot accurately. I beleive this is mostly due the lower bore position.
1911 Easier to Shoot?
Bullseye requires mastery of the 1911 beyond the distinctions of many shooters.
I think, however, "easier to shoot" applies to everyday range blasting and certainly self defense. Having taken the basic Gunsite course from Col. Cooper in 1980 I recall his remarks were primarily about defensive handgun shooting.
I can tell you that half the class were new to the 1911 as they began instruction, including a couple of women in their late 50's. Within two days everyone was shooting safely from the holster and hitting what they aimed at.
With proper instruction from the beginning, the 1911 lives up to its reputation for practical accuracy and speedy hits to center of mass.
With practice, I'm sure, any pistol of sufficient caliber can be very effective. The 1911 remains my favorite and the one I'd go to if I knew I was headed into harms way.
Bullseye requires mastery of the 1911 beyond the distinctions of many shooters.
I think, however, "easier to shoot" applies to everyday range blasting and certainly self defense. Having taken the basic Gunsite course from Col. Cooper in 1980 I recall his remarks were primarily about defensive handgun shooting.
I can tell you that half the class were new to the 1911 as they began instruction, including a couple of women in their late 50's. Within two days everyone was shooting safely from the holster and hitting what they aimed at.
With proper instruction from the beginning, the 1911 lives up to its reputation for practical accuracy and speedy hits to center of mass.
With practice, I'm sure, any pistol of sufficient caliber can be very effective. The 1911 remains my favorite and the one I'd go to if I knew I was headed into harms way.
1911
Anyone here ever read Col. Askins' "The Art of Handgun Shooting"? A classic work, and, I think, very authoritative. He very strongly made the point that the 1911 is difficult to master, although he did it magnificently in his years as a national-level Bullseye competitor.
Is it just my reading, or has every source I've read, and every experienced Bullseye shooter I've ever met, reccommended learning to shoot with something lighter before moving to the .45?
My old club in OH was full of excellent pistol shooters. No matter what your previous experience was, when you joined you had to shoot .22 in matches for awhile before you were allowed to use your .45. The best shooters in the club could be seen from time to time going back to the .22 for a while to correct faults or bad habits that had developed.
I think you fella who found it easy to master are just geniuses, but for us ordinary folks it just ain't so. And I wonder how many of you who find it easy have shot Bullseye matches. The gun was never meant as a target arm, and that's one of the nice challenges about it. I've never used it for plinking or action shooting; my approach has always been to try to shoot pretty groups in the x-ring, and I am not ashamed to have found it chalenging although I manage to do it from time to time.
Anyone here ever read Col. Askins' "The Art of Handgun Shooting"? A classic work, and, I think, very authoritative. He very strongly made the point that the 1911 is difficult to master, although he did it magnificently in his years as a national-level Bullseye competitor.
Is it just my reading, or has every source I've read, and every experienced Bullseye shooter I've ever met, reccommended learning to shoot with something lighter before moving to the .45?
My old club in OH was full of excellent pistol shooters. No matter what your previous experience was, when you joined you had to shoot .22 in matches for awhile before you were allowed to use your .45. The best shooters in the club could be seen from time to time going back to the .22 for a while to correct faults or bad habits that had developed.
I think you fella who found it easy to master are just geniuses, but for us ordinary folks it just ain't so. And I wonder how many of you who find it easy have shot Bullseye matches. The gun was never meant as a target arm, and that's one of the nice challenges about it. I've never used it for plinking or action shooting; my approach has always been to try to shoot pretty groups in the x-ring, and I am not ashamed to have found it chalenging although I manage to do it from time to time.