Is my 6mm rifle capable of shooting 243?
- Thread starter shmitty
- Start date
Mike Irwin
Staff
"i've been saying for years that the best way to find proof of something om the internet is to put it there yourself."
OK, that right there is both funny and true all rolled into one!
OK, that right there is both funny and true all rolled into one!
Ive actually done that once or twice. during a discussion, put something on an internet page, said "it's true, it's on the internet," and posted a link to what I had just put in.
Of course, that was all part of a long, ongoing joke, but you get the point.
Of course it's true, it's on the internet. Here, look.
Of course, that was all part of a long, ongoing joke, but you get the point.
Of course it's true, it's on the internet. Here, look.
That looks like a factory Remington barrel from the seventies. Looks to me like it's the barrel that goes with that action. He has the ammunition and the rifle and the story, and it's been pretty well established that .243 can [pretty certainly be shot in a 6 mm rem rifle, and we have his word that this is how it happened, I'm inclined to just leave it at face value. The op must have owned the thing and fired the wrong round through it.
Note that the barrel has the factory remington scope mount screws fitted into the barrel where the sights had been removed.
I can't imagine what the results were. Inaccurate, almost certainly, and the spent cases should have looked nothing like the unfired ammo. I still wonder if it would have resulted in some gas leakage.
This is just another of the weird stories.
Note that the barrel has the factory remington scope mount screws fitted into the barrel where the sights had been removed.
I can't imagine what the results were. Inaccurate, almost certainly, and the spent cases should have looked nothing like the unfired ammo. I still wonder if it would have resulted in some gas leakage.
This is just another of the weird stories.
Thanks for the pics, clearly that is a Mohawk 600!
And that appears to be a Remington barrel. So my idea #5 is toast.
Still not certain if that is the ORIGINAL Remington barrel...(probably is..)
I was unaware that Remington produced any Mohawks in 6mm, although one thing I have learned is that in firearms, exceptions are often the rule. I will do some more research.
After dropping the model 600, (and 660) as front line items, Remington continued to produce the 600 as the Mohawk 600 for a couple years, and if I recall correctly only listed them in .243 and .308Win. I have a .243, have seen others, have never seen a Mohawk .308, but that doesn't mean they never built any...
One of the things that sometimes happens is that, when a model is nearing the end of its production, gunmakers will use up as many of the existing parts as possible, which leads to variations that were not catalogued items, and may even be one of a kind rarities. If I cannot find any listing of a Mohawk in 6mm it might be that your rifle was simply assembled with a late production Model 600 6mm barrel that was "left over".
As to the whole "Japan designed the 7.7mm to be able to shoot .30-06" thing, its just another of the BS rumors that float about in our military, and never seem to go away. Unless you are superhero strong, you CANNOT close an Arisaka bolt on a .30-06 round BY HAND. And I'm not sure a "bootheel to the bolt handle" would do it, either, though a hammer to the bolt (or a hydraulic press) would, eventually...
I've made a number of 7.7mm cases from 06 brass, and know a bit about the dimensions. An 06 case will NOT fit in a 7.7mm chamber.
The reverse, on the other hand, does work. You CAN chamber a 7.7mm and fire it in a .30-06 chamber!!!!
One possible point of confusion that either led to, or has kept that particular BS rumor alive is that a number of Arisakas had their chambers cut to .30-06, AFTER THE WAR, in the US, by civilian gunsmiths. NEVER by the Japanese makers during the war.
I have heard the "they can shoot ours but we can't shoot theirs" rumors about a number of things over the years, and with one exception (that I know of) all have been pure BS.
The only case I have ever found where the "they can shoot ours but we can't shoot theirs" MIGHT be true is the Soviet 82mm mortar. In WWII, virtually everyone's "mid bore" mortars were 81mm-ish copies in whole or part of a pre-war French design. US, German, French, (not sure about British, but likely) were all 81mm. For what ever reason, the Soviets made theirs 82mm, possibly to be able to shoot 81mm ammo, probably just as a convenience for their manufacturing process.
NO ONE has ever made,or at least admitted to deliberately making, their guns to take the enemy's ammo, and their own.
I have also heard the stories about how the Japs used "bamboo bullets", and stand ready to debunk that one, as well.
And that appears to be a Remington barrel. So my idea #5 is toast.
Still not certain if that is the ORIGINAL Remington barrel...(probably is..)
I was unaware that Remington produced any Mohawks in 6mm, although one thing I have learned is that in firearms, exceptions are often the rule. I will do some more research.
After dropping the model 600, (and 660) as front line items, Remington continued to produce the 600 as the Mohawk 600 for a couple years, and if I recall correctly only listed them in .243 and .308Win. I have a .243, have seen others, have never seen a Mohawk .308, but that doesn't mean they never built any...
One of the things that sometimes happens is that, when a model is nearing the end of its production, gunmakers will use up as many of the existing parts as possible, which leads to variations that were not catalogued items, and may even be one of a kind rarities. If I cannot find any listing of a Mohawk in 6mm it might be that your rifle was simply assembled with a late production Model 600 6mm barrel that was "left over".
As to the whole "Japan designed the 7.7mm to be able to shoot .30-06" thing, its just another of the BS rumors that float about in our military, and never seem to go away. Unless you are superhero strong, you CANNOT close an Arisaka bolt on a .30-06 round BY HAND. And I'm not sure a "bootheel to the bolt handle" would do it, either, though a hammer to the bolt (or a hydraulic press) would, eventually...
I've made a number of 7.7mm cases from 06 brass, and know a bit about the dimensions. An 06 case will NOT fit in a 7.7mm chamber.
The reverse, on the other hand, does work. You CAN chamber a 7.7mm and fire it in a .30-06 chamber!!!!
One possible point of confusion that either led to, or has kept that particular BS rumor alive is that a number of Arisakas had their chambers cut to .30-06, AFTER THE WAR, in the US, by civilian gunsmiths. NEVER by the Japanese makers during the war.
I have heard the "they can shoot ours but we can't shoot theirs" rumors about a number of things over the years, and with one exception (that I know of) all have been pure BS.
The only case I have ever found where the "they can shoot ours but we can't shoot theirs" MIGHT be true is the Soviet 82mm mortar. In WWII, virtually everyone's "mid bore" mortars were 81mm-ish copies in whole or part of a pre-war French design. US, German, French, (not sure about British, but likely) were all 81mm. For what ever reason, the Soviets made theirs 82mm, possibly to be able to shoot 81mm ammo, probably just as a convenience for their manufacturing process.
NO ONE has ever made,or at least admitted to deliberately making, their guns to take the enemy's ammo, and their own.
I have also heard the stories about how the Japs used "bamboo bullets", and stand ready to debunk that one, as well.
Mike Irwin
Staff
"The only case I have ever found where the "they can shoot ours but we can't shoot theirs" MIGHT be true is the Soviet 82mm mortar. In WWII, virtually everyone's "mid bore" mortars were 81mm-ish copies in whole or part of a pre-war French design. US, German, French, (not sure about British, but likely) were all 81mm. For what ever reason, the Soviets made theirs 82mm, possibly to be able to shoot 81mm ammo, probably just as a convenience for their manufacturing process."
I've recounted this many times here over the years.
The Soviets also based their 1930s service mortars (the ones that carried them through World War II) on designs from the Edgar Brandt company of France.
But, it's most likely that the 82mm shell size came about as an independent rework of the shells for the 76mm Imperial German minenwerfer (its werfs minen), which the Russians apparently got a lot of during the 1920s.
As for why Brandt chose an 81mm shell for its designs? I guess they decided it gave the best performance characteristics.
I've recounted this many times here over the years.
The Soviets also based their 1930s service mortars (the ones that carried them through World War II) on designs from the Edgar Brandt company of France.
But, it's most likely that the 82mm shell size came about as an independent rework of the shells for the 76mm Imperial German minenwerfer (its werfs minen), which the Russians apparently got a lot of during the 1920s.
As for why Brandt chose an 81mm shell for its designs? I guess they decided it gave the best performance characteristics.
To close the circle on this thread, my son and I shot the rifle this weekend. After quickly sighting it in at 100 yds, we were shooting 3-4 inch groups at 200 yds. It has surprisingly sharp recoil. This was using 6mm Remington 95gr soft points. Thinking I should put a pad on the buttstock
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If the extractor claw could hold the base enough for the firing pin to reach the primer, it would likely fire.
The 6mm chamber diameter at the point where the 243 shoulder would hit is about 10-thousands too small -- but we know that Bubba doesn't let little things like sizing the 243 case that extra little bit with the bolt cam action get in the way.
Thereafter it would allign into the chamber neck enough to get the bulley going the right direction -- with freebore that Roy Weatherby would envy.
The case might look a little "Weathered" upon coming out though.
ps: Don't ask me to try it.
The 6mm chamber diameter at the point where the 243 shoulder would hit is about 10-thousands too small -- but we know that Bubba doesn't let little things like sizing the 243 case that extra little bit with the bolt cam action get in the way.
Thereafter it would allign into the chamber neck enough to get the bulley going the right direction -- with freebore that Roy Weatherby would envy.
The case might look a little "Weathered" upon coming out though.
ps: Don't ask me to try it.
Gunplummer
New member
It is amazing what can fire by accident in the wrong rifle. I had two identical 6.5 Arisakas and one was opened up to 6.5x55. I had both boxes of ammo on the table and fired a 6.5x50 in the Swedish chamber. It fire formed the brass with almost no neck. The bullet hit the target about 2" off the group. I was at the range when a guy fired a .300 savage in a 7.62x54 Russian rifle. The brass looked normal, exactly like out of his 99 he was shooting. If you look at the two, the shoulder length to the base is really close. I would not recommend doing either. I had a converted T-99 Arisaka. There were a couple thousand done by the US Army for South Korea during the war. That may be where the rumor started. Who knows? I heard the same thing about the 7.62x54 when I was in.