Is More Than 3 Shots Necessary?

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amazon shooter

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Why does anyone NEED anything more than a J frame, 5 shot S&W revolver for self defense?

I know lots of people WANT more ammo, but is it realistic in view of this NYPD study found at http://nypdconfidential.com/columns/2007/070108.html
which stated:

“The average number of rounds fired per officer in 2006 (3.5) was down 5 per cent from 2005 (3.7) but up from 1997 (3.1)”

Isn't carrying more than one gun, high capacity magazines, and extra magazines OVERKILL?

I think some guys are drinking purple cool-aid.
 
There was a shooting in Jacksonville, FL, not too long ago that involved an off-duty deputy sheriff (SWAT team, competitive shooter type) and a shoplifter who decided to resist with armed force.

Both were carrying .45's, IIRC.

Both fired a lot of rounds.

Each was hit seven times before the fight ended.

Deputy survived, but used all fourteen rounds in his Glock in order to survive.

So, yes, we are all drinking purple cool-aid.... either that, or you don't understand that statistical norms still have a certain number of out-liers.

Edit: Don't forget, an extra magazine may not have anything to do with a desire for capacity (although it doesn't hurt). The most common point of failure in semi-autos is the magazine, and one of the most common means of clearing a stoppage involves dropping the magazine that's in the gun. It's a good idea to have a spare, for such situations. And the extra rounds aren't a minus.

Also, some people like to carry a spare or two opposite the pistol, to help balance the weight. This is true for both belt (IWB/OWB) holsters and shoulder holster rigs.
 
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It's interesting to see how averages come up. I'm sure some of the officers fired only once or none while others had to empty their magazines. It would be nice to have a link to the actual study so we could see.
 
It's an average. I remember my stats for engineers class in college -- first lecture was about how useless averages can be.

For example, suppose you have ten shootings in your sample. They required the following number of shots:

1, 2, 2, 1, 8, 3, 7, 8, 1, 2

The average is 3.5 (I checked). But, you have a 30% chance of needing 7 or more shots! That's enough to reasonably carry a reload...

I've seen some numbers that say 90%+ of "events" do not require a shot. That tells me that I can carry a gun with no bullets! But no one's that stupid -- because we understand that we're not preparing for average, necessarily.

I want to know what the standard deviation is...
 
statistical norms still have a certain number of out-liers
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With due respect, I don't even think we need to invoke outliers. If the data doesn't conform to a normal distribution (i.e., a significant skew), or if it only has a very high variance, the average becomes useless.
 
When things go wrong, I never hear anybody complaining about extra fuel in the tank, extra water in the canteen, extra money in the bank, or extra ammo in the gun.

I think a lot of the "all you need is a J frame" crowd (not all, and I sometimes carry just a J frame myself) are trying to convince themselves, more than the rest of us, that that's all they will ever need.

Odds are, they are right; but see paragraph 1.
 
When you are digging in your pocket like Barney Fife trying to reload that J-frame wheel gun, I'm still in the fight putting down bad guys.:cool:
 
amazon shooter, remember that arrests are optional; survival is mandatory (or, at least, pass/fail).

Also, when was the last time you had to perform a precise motor function under high stress? How many hits do you assume you will get with your five shots? Will all your hits be in vital areas?

I haven't been involved in a shootout. Nearest I've come, as a professional pilot, would be dealing with fires, engine failures, and low ceilings and 1/4 mile visibility approaches (not simultaneously, thankfully...). So, I know I can do pretty well under stress, at things for which I train.

But, even though I train at shooting quite a bit (on average probably 250rds per week), I don't assume I'll score 100% if I ever get into a shootout.

Perhaps you know something I don't?
 
I remember a couple of instances where off duty LEOs intervened, and did need more than 5 shots. At least one of them was shot, but survived. It was a female officer I believe, and I think there were 3 BG.

But I am not an off duty LEO, and do not think I would ever need more than the 5 rounds in a J frame.
If anyone has some instances of a CHL holder needing more, or needing to reload a 7 rd SA please let us know.
I sometimes carry one extra mag for my Kahr or 1911 Compact, but sometimes not that. I almost never carry an extra mag for my P3AT. I am not willing to load my belt down with several mags that I will never need.

Jerry
 
Recent case of an Ohio man defending himself as another attacker approached him could go some way to answering that. Reads like a point being made about shot placement? Enough evidence to suggest that having more ammo couldn't hurt. How does that saying go? Better to need it and have it than to need it and not?

Putting it this way, what's the harm if you after firing you have additional rounds left in your firearm or mags/clips?
 
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Is More Than 3 Shots Necessary?
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It takes what it takes, 1, 3, 30, whatever.

I would prefer to have only needed 1 round, and have 16 rounds left in the gun, than have shot 5 and need 6.
 
I guess if you ever have to defend yourself and the guy does not fall after 3 shots you can show him the NYPD study and convince him he should not be resisting anymore.
 
I promised God one night that if he let me live to see the dawn I'd never run out of ammo again.

He kept His end of the deal. I intend to keep mine.
 
When you are digging in your pocket like Barney Fife trying to reload that J-frame wheel gun,
Click to expand...

LOL. Old country boys like me and Barney may not be as dumb as you think:

nyrrev.JPG
 
The AVERAGE person will never need to fire a gun.

There are plenty of people who would say that you are drinking purple kool-aid just because you feel the need to carry at all. We don't carry guns in case of the average day. We carry guns in case of the extreme.

Your post was based on an NYPD study, yet for some reason, the NYPD still carries firearms with more than 5 rounds?:confused:

Often times I do only carry 5 rounds, with loose rounds as a reload. But don't poo-poo on the guys who can lay 6x as much firepower down as you. There are plenty of situations that they have the potential to survive that you would probably get killed in.

Now the guys who carry 3 magazines and 2 BUGS on their trip to Wally World have been watchin a little too much TV. But those types are not a common occurence on this board.
 
Amazon, since you read that study from New York, have you reduced the number of rounds in your J Frame from 5 to 4? Considering the statistical analysis you quote, you will likely not even need all 4. 5 is overkill. Why are you carrying around that extra round you will not need?
 
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