Is it weird?

No. :)

There's a reason it's called "felt" recoil – it's highly subjective and dependent on the person who felt it. :)

Although 9mm has a smaller recoil impulse when all other factors are equal, those factors are rarely equal, and there's more to felt recoil than recoil impulse alone.

Noise can influence felt recoil, and 9mm is often noisier because most <147gr loads are supersonic in most full-size pistols, whereas most .45 ACP loads are subsonic in all pistol-length barrels. There's also the influence of muzzle flash. The trend towards small concealable 9mm pistols has caused barrel lengths to shrink, and in my experience, most 115-124gr 9mm ammo has a lot more muzzle flash from a 2.5" barrel than your average 240gr .45 ACP hardball does from a 5" Gov't Model.
 
Yes....probably...

But the key issues affecting recoil are weight of bullet, velocity and weight of the gun. If you are shooting a significantly lighter gun in 9mm...it might be close to the recoil of a .45 acp in a heavier gun.

All things being equal in the gun ( both a 40 oz all steel gun ) the 9mm is significantly less recoil with a lighter ( 115 or 124gr and faster bullet ( probably around 25% less ) - than the heavier 230 gr and slower bullet in a .45 acp ..
 
If the 9mm is out of a derringer and the .45acp is out of a fullsize 1911 then no, not weird at all...:)
 
BigJimP All things being equal in the gun ( both a 40 oz all steel gun ) the 9mm is significantly less recoil with a lighter ( 115 or 124gr and faster bullet ( probably around 25% less ) - than the heavier 230 gr and slower bullet in a .45 acp .
Click to expand...

Try 42% less recoil.

See the link I posted above.
 
I can tell you the "felt" recoil in a 40 shield is a bit more than the felt recoil of a 45 shield. I have shot both of mine together and the feel is less with the 45 to me.

It is a subjective thing for each of us some may feel it less than others.


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It may not kick more but it is definitely different.

The 9mm is a supersonic round and the recoil is more of a crack, rapid felt recoil. The .45 acp is a subsonic round and the recoil is more of a push than a crack.

Your opinions may vary and that is fine. I can tell you my wife much preferred shooting my 1911 over my P89 simply because of felt recoil. She now has a PT111 G2 and has no complaints about recoil any longer.
 
You're not feeling the recoil. You're reacting to the slightly higher muzzle blast caused by the higher velocity out of a usually slightly shorter barrel.
Noticed that with my 1911A1 and BHP.
 
Try 42% less recoil.
Click to expand...

I read the linked article, and I won't dispute their results, and I do compliment them on their efforts to use guns of identical weight as much as possible.

HOWEVER,

I think writing that the 9mm has 42% less recoil than the .45 is ...misleading. and that is because of the way we jumble up terms and definitions.

As I read their test, I didn't find that the 9mm had 42% less recoil, what I saw was that recoil moved the 9mm gun in the rest 42% less than the 45 did.

"But, isn't that the same thing???":confused:

yes, and no. ;)

Movement of the gun in the rest isn't recoil, its work done by recoil. The difference is subtle, but important to understand.

lets define recoil, so we're all on the same page, as :force opposite the direction of bullet travel. (if you prefer a different definition, I'll listen to your reasoning..:))

Now as long as Newton's 3rd law is in effect, recoil energy must be equal to the bullet's energy. (in rough terms, it is a little more complex, I freely admit)

That's the energy available to do work. How that energy performs work involves many different factors. Time matters. Mass matters. Surface area matters, as well as other things.

The standard ball ammo for the 9mm and .45acp have approximately the same amount of energy. (365ish ft/lbs) That's all the energy available, and its the same, so recoil energy must likewise, be the same.

Movement of the gun is work done by that energy. Felt recoil is our subjective impression of that work, and involves still other factors.

"So, the 9mm did 42% less work?"

again, yes, and no. yes, because the distance the gun moved in the rest was 42% less for the 9mm, and no, because in that comparison, the distance the gun moved was the only thing being measured.

The distance moved doesn't account for the way the energy was applied, only the end result of that application. Time matters.

Say you have a big heavy door, slap the door with X ft/lbs of force, the door moves a little bit. Push the door with the same X ft/lbs and it moves several inches. Same amount of energy, different result. Time matters.

Of course, all this is only somewhat relevant to how the gun feels in your hands when you shoot, and that involves a lot more.
 
Perceived recoil is in the grip and weight of the pistol. I have greater recoil with my Ruger LC9S than I do with my heavier 1911. There are many frames that will fit your grip and perception of recoil and follow-through. Here, there are many options for the shooter.
 
Im getting stoned for this :D oh well let it be its just my opinion and its how I feel only.


Years ago i had 2 pistols in 45 a 1911 and a g21 both i like and shot well with. I didnt feel bothered by the recoil at all i actually kinda liked it it felt like a push. Anyway i decided 45 was too expensive at the time and decided to get a 9mm. Made more sense cost less, guns hold more, less kick etc. So i did my hw on 9mm handguns and ended up between a cz 75b and a g19. Got both kept the cz. I shoot this gun very good and can hit anything with it but i catch myself flinching every 4-5 rounds and with the 45s i would hardly flinch and when i did id fix it on the following shot. With the cz i cant seem to do that ill flinch for 2-3rounds. I can go a full mag without flinching but i really have to try hard and feels like work lol anyway i think 9mm feels like a jolt to my wrist vs the push or thump feel of a 45.
 
I have not shot that many 9mm's, nor do I care to. But of those that I've fired the recoil seems pretty mild but the flash is noticeable. The toggle outlined by the flash is distracting to me.

As to felt recoil, I'd say the 9mm is not much different that the recoil of my Mauser in .25 ACP. Both are fast and "snappy."

Bob Wright
 
Real recoil is a factor of 4 things that can be mathematically calculated.

weight of the firearm
weight of the projectile
weight of the powder charge
velocity of the projectile

I've found that the effects of recoil are largely between the ears, especially when people start talking about "felt" recoil. The math doesn't lie, but the human brain is easily fooled. If you get it in your head that 9mm recoils more than 45 you will believe it. It is quite common for people to believe that certain rounds kick a lot more or less than they actually do. Doesn't make it so.
 
^^i always thought 9 kicked less i dont know why i flinch so much with the cz. I guess i should sell it and get a 45 and be done with it

In my defense..:)
I have a s&w 442 that i love to take out plinking even with +p ammo and im accurate with it
 
Let’s do the math.

Let’s use the numbers from the posted link (Table 2). For this example, I used 0 for the gunpowder charge weight since it is not reported. The gunpowder weight adds force to the recoil impulse, but since we don’t know how much it is, we can’t use it. Recoil force was calculated for a 2 pound gun.

.45 ACP 230 grain bullet at 820 fps = 5.64 ft lbs of recoil force.

9mm 115 grain bullet at 1159 fps = 2.82 ft lbs of recoil force.

2.82/5.64 = .50.

Conclusion, the 9mm has 1/2 the recoil of the 45. Or, the 45 has twice the recoil of the 9mm.

So, 42% was an underestimate of the actual 50% recoil force difference between the two cartridges.


The 45 and the 9mm use similar amounts of powder for their typical loads. The 45 tends to use a little more weight when using the same gunpowder according to my Hornady loading manual, which would add to the 45’s recoil force.

A recoil calculator can be found: http://kwk.us/recoil.html

The gunpowder weight adds to the recoil force: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Recoil#Including_the_ejected_gas

Note, the formulas for calculating recoil and for calculating muzzle energy are different, so you can’t say that they produce the same amount of recoil even if they produce the same amount of muzzle energy.
 
74A95 said:
Let’s do the math.

Let’s use the numbers from the posted link (Table 2). For this example, I used 0 for the gunpowder charge weight since it is not reported. The gunpowder weight adds force to the recoil impulse, but since we don’t know how much it is, we can’t use it. Recoil force was calculated for a 2 pound gun.....
Click to expand...
Except you did the math incorrectly, so your conclusions are worthless. By leaving out the mass of the powder charge you've omitted a material parameter for the calculation.

In contrast, see this article: "Measuring Recoil – A Comparison of Pistols (Part 1)." Among other things, the author calculted recoil engergy for known loads and specific handguns. This table shows his results:

​



Recoil energy is a precise, physical quantity that is a function of the weight (mass) of the bullet, the weight (mass) of the powder charge, the muzzle velocity of the bullet, the muzzle velocity of the powder gases, and the weight (mass) of the gun. If you have those quantities for a given load in a given gun, you can calculate the amount of recoil energy produced when that load is fired in that gun. And a heavy bullet will produce more recoil energy than a lighter bullet fired from the same gun at a comparable velocity. Note that --

  • Recoil energy is directly proportional to the mass of the ejecta, i. e., recoil energy increases as the mass of the ejecta increase. The mass of the ejecta is made up of --

    • The mass of the bullet; and

    • The mass of the gases produced by the burning powder (which is directly proportional to the mass of the powder charge).

  • Recoil energy is directly proportional to the velocity of the ejecta, i. e., recoil energy increases as the mass of the ejecta increase. The velocity of the ejecta includes --

    • The velocity of the bullet; and

    • The velocity of the burning powder gases.

  • Recoil energy is inversely proportional to the mass of the gun, i. e., as the mass of the gun increases, recoil energy decreases.

If you're interested, you can calculate the recoil energy of a given load using the following formula1:

WG = Weight of gun in pounds
WB = Weight of bullet in grains
WP = Weight of powder charge in grains
VB = Muzzle velocity of bullet in f/s
I = Interim number (Recoil Impulse in lb/sec)
VG = Recoil velocity of gun (f/s)
EG = Recoil energy of gun (ft lb)

I = [(WB * VB) + (WP * 4000)] / 225218

VG = 32.2 * (I / WG)

EG = (WG * VG * VG) / 64.4

Felt recoil is a subjective matter. Various factors can affect how recoil is perceived. In a long gun, like a shotgun, gun fit can be a major influence -- especially things like the shape of the comb, the shape and dimensions of the buttpad, the drop at the comb, the angle of the buttpad relative to the bore axis, cast-on of cast-off of the buttstock, and the thickness and angle of the grip are some of the attributes of gun fit which can influence how one perceives recoil.
________________________

1. This formula is quite similar to a formula for free recoil set out at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_recoil, although I think that the formula from Wikipedia may be a little more precise based on what I've read in Hatcher's Notebook. The formula I've reproduced above, is from the Q&As at http://www.frfrogspad.com/miscella.htm (specifically the question about why some guns of the same caliber kick harder than others). John Schaefer (FrFrog) notes that, "..."4000" is the nominal velocity of the powder gases at the muzzle for commercial smokeless powder and the observed range is between 3700 and 4300 f/s. It is sometimes stated as 4700 in some sources but this is based on observations of artillery, not small arms...." The Wikipedia formula would use the actual powder gas velocity, which may not be readily available.
 
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