Is it just me, or is it 1992 all over again?

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Matt, Jack,

I don't like to be told that I need to wake up either! I have studied this issue to death. I'm sorry for the name calling, but it is as plain as the nose on your face that that this is no normal election year. I've all ready explained why a hundred times on various threads and I'm getting tired of it.

I would love to vote for a decent third party candidate for President this year, but I just can't. The stakes really are too high. Never before has this country been at the crossroads that we are approaching.

Someone who is progun who throws his vote away on a candidate who can't win, bothers me a lot more than some liberal who votes for Gore directly. The progunner should know better. There is a 90 percent chance that I will vote Libertarian next time around. I just can't do it this time. :) Please think about what I'm telling you.

Joe
 
Republicans! Here is my challenge!

Show me one federal gun law the Republicans repealed that stayed
repealed.

The law prohibiting a firearms within 1000 ft. of school property was ruled
unconstitutional by the Supreme Court (U.S. v. Gomez). Congress
immediately passed a new law with the same provision.
- What part of the Republican “Contract with America” was that?
- Wasn’t that a Republican Congress who did that?

Again, show me one federal gun law the Republicans repealed that stayed
repealed.
-------------

Someone who says they are pro-gun who throws his vote away on a gun
control candidate just because he has a great public relations scam bothers
me as much as some liberal who votes for Gore directly. The pro-gunner should know better.
The Republicans have passed or helped pass every single gun law we have.

The Democrats make outrageous demands, the Republicans “compromise” so
we only lose a little bit and we stupidly call it a victory and praise the
Republicans.

Then the Democrats and Republicans do the same thing, over and over and
over again, and people who profess to believe in the Second Amendment
continue to vote for the very people who are taking away our Second
Amendment Rights.

As one person stated, idiocy is doing the same thing over and over and
expecting different results.

The Republicans are more dangerous to our Rights than the Democrats
because the Republicans have found a system to take away our guns and
have us cheer for them while they do it.


------------------
Either you believe in the Second Amendment or you don't.
Stick it to 'em! RKBA!

[This message has been edited by Dennis (edited July 07, 2000).]
 
I think what Coinneach is saying is, your vote put where you think it needs to be, where your conscience says it goes, is not a wasted vote, by definition.

It just may not agree with the next guy's vote. Politics is partisanship in practice. My assertion that your vote for Bush/Gore is a wasted vote has just as much validity as the assertion that to not vote for Bush is a vote for Gore. How ludicrous! I can lecture on the subject of political expediency and castigate those who say they must vote for Bush, even though they don't like him, in order to insure Gore's defeat simply on the basis of your admission that you are not voting your conscience, not voting for whoever it is you would like to see in office, but for victory at the expense of your conscience. How honest is that?

Win now, do the right thing later? Go ahead. No one ever said it was easy. You have to look yourself in the mirror the morning after. But the venom directed at those with whom you don't agree is uncalled for. You can't do the right thing later. It ain't for later. It's for now. I'll cast my vote and you cast yours.

You want partisanship? Here you go ... I don't know what it takes for some people to get a belly full, but I actually heard an acquaintance say that four years of Gore will make the return to sanity that much easier. The whack on the peepee we have doesn't hurt bad enough yet. He may be right. I don't see a ground swell of indignation. Do you? Coming to TFL is singing with the choir. What are you gonna do if Gore wins? Commit suicide? Go berserk? You better start thinking about it because there are a lot of people, I mean a LOT of people that just are not going to vote Republi-crat any more, ever again! One wants my left arm and a lung and the other wants my right leg and a kidney. WTF? That's a choice?

Change has to start somewhere, sometime. Let it be here, now.

If my vote is "wasted" in the end, as you say, so be it. I'll be the judge of that. One thing my father taught me was to not scoff at another's beliefs. I still believe that. Just remember how lucky you are that you don't HAVE to agree with me. You can actually vote the way YOU see fit. Think about it.
 
"The Republic is probably lost anyway, I'm going to watch us go to a "mobocracy" with a
clear conscience though."

Gee, who can argue with logic like that? Is it any wonder we are losing. Maybe we deserve to lose it.

For those who believe Perot had no impact, BS! Perot pulled votes from the Republican side, not Clinton's. Perot's support base came from social/economic conservatives and libertarians. Know any of these who routinely vote Democrat? According to those who study this stuff for a living, Bush would have killed Bush except for Perot, which was Perot's goal.

But, enough of this. Obviously, people have made up there own minds. People are going to vote for Browne and then whine when Gore gets elected. And by the time the "pump is primed," there will be no means by which to do anything with it. Within a few years, the federal gov't will have subsumed most law enforcement activities, the National Police Corps will have been established, strict regulation of firearms will be here, and Mr. Browne will probably have suffered an "accident."

Maybe the Republicans don't do as much or what we want. But the Democrats don't do ANYTHING we want.

I posted this before reading the plea to end it. Sorry about that. But as for alienating "potential allies" I'll be blunt: an ally is someone who will assist you in achieving a common goal. Will helping Gore get elected in the interests of "sending a message" achieve our common goal? Not a personal attack. Just a thought.

As a final thought, I'll pass along an interesting story. Friend of mine (arch-conservative) back in '92 said that he was thinking about voting for Perot. When I asked why, he said "I want to send a message to Bush. Let him know that I think he's a wussy and needs to straighten up and fly right. Seeing Perot get all those votes will do that." I told him that if he wanted to send a message, he should write a letter and not risk my freedoms while he exercised his. On that horrible night in November 1992, as we all got drunk in sorrow, he kept saying "how could America be so stupid as to let this happen?" I was in too much pain to say "I told you so."

[This message has been edited by buzz_knox (edited July 07, 2000).]

[This message has been edited by buzz_knox (edited July 07, 2000).]
 
Everyone can vote for who they want to.Just remember one thing,if gore gets in you had better be ready to give up your guns or lock and load.I think those will be your only options.Think on it!!

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beemerb
We have a criminal jury system which is superior to any in the world;
and its efficiency is only marred by the difficulty of finding twelve men
every day who don't know anything and can't read.
-Mark Twain
 
I swore I was done, given my "final answer" but really, THIS is my last post on the subject.

I'm not voting Libertarian to "send a message". I can do that via email. I'm voting that way because I want Browne to win. Because I DON'T want another Freedom-ignorant Prez in office. Bush doesn't reflect my views and he won't get my vote. I don't trust anything he says or has done. Its easy to be pro-gun in Texas. He gets on the national stage and poof, suddenly its hi-cap import bans. Whats up with that?

As far as my conscience goes, you ought to read that Claire Wolf article about all of the stuff the Repub Congress has passed. It ain't pretty. Its about more than RKBA and I have to vote my political philosophy to keep my conscience clean. Repub or Dems, that road leads to serfdom and I won't have nothin' to do with it. We may be headed for political ugliness, but I won't contribute to it in any way shape or form.

And I promise not to "whine" when we get Gored.

That's my final word.

[This message has been edited by Jack 99 (edited July 07, 2000).]
 
Matt,

You asked us to take a look at who Reagan and Bush appointed to the Supreme Court. Let's do that, O.K?

Reagan:
1. Raised Justice William Rehnquist to Chief Justice. (originally appointed by Nixon) Solid conservative vote.

2. Sandra Day O'Connor. Swing vote. So-so choice, could be better, could be worse.

3. Antonin Scalia. Solid conservative vote. Probably best constructionist on Court along with Thomas.

4. Anthony Kennedy. Solid conservative vote.

Bush:
1. David Souter. Reliable liberal vote.

2. Clarence Thomas. Solid conservative vote. Excellent constructionist along with Scalia.

Of the six Justices appointed by Reagan and Bush, four are solid conservatives, one is a swing vote and one is a liberal(a serious mistake by Bush acting on Sen Rudmans recomendation). That is not a bad record if you ask me.

Now lets look at Clinton's appointees.

1. Ruth Bader Ginsburg. Liberal.

2. Stephen Breyer. Liberal.

Why is this so difficult to understand?????

This is how a President influences the direction we as a nation take more than any other way. A President and Congress can pass all of the laws that they choose, but the Supreme Court can throw any of them out if they feel they are un-Constitutional.


[This message has been edited by Cactus (edited July 07, 2000).]
 
I'm a libertarian / Libertarian, and I'll be voting for Bush. The Supreme Court situation is what swings my vote, but I'm certainly still concerned about what Bush will really do once in office.

And, Battler, do a little research. As I recall, the Libertarians are still the third largest political party (see http://www.lp.org/intro/party.html ), and I think you'll find they have a very consistent and logical political philosophy. Check them out carefully before you so easily dismiss this party.

So, I'll vote Bush this year, and probably Libertarians otherwise ... crossing my fingers the entire time. There are times I consider changing my party affiliation to Republican to see if I can turn some of them around, but it seems hopeless.

Regards from AZ
 
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by buzz_knox:
Let's see. We have a choice between (1) someone we know to be crooked, corrupt, interested in a socialist agenda, and who's opposed to liberty and (2) someone who may not be the best we could hope for, but generally thinks the way we do, and has proven his support for our issue (to a far greater extent than his father). From this choice, we get a lot of gunowners' saying, "vote third party, send a message, even if we don't win!"
[/quote]


Thank you for making my point for me. Many people will be staying home Nov 7, 2000 because they know that Bush vs. Gore is a shoo-in either way. There is no one else to turn to.

For Pete' sake, most third party candidates are not even allowed to debate, on a national forum, against the "Big Two" political party machine candidates, Buzz.

It's time we had a third(or forth) voice.

You say you want a REAL change?

Well, you wont get it by contining to vote ,time and again, for tweedle-dee
and tweedle-dum.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>
Hmm. We lost in '92. We lost in '96 for similar reasons (Dole wasn't conservative enough for those who prefered psycho Perot). Will we lose in '00? You so-called third party voters are the ones to decide.
[/quote]

Dole was "next in line" for the Republican nomination. He never had a chance against King Willy.

People stayed home.

And as Coinneach said, no vote is really wasted, if you vote your concience, but you MUST GET OUT AND VOTE!!!

In fact, it will not be Libertarians, Greens, Reform, Peace & Freedom or any other third party that will decide the outcome.

No, it is those who stay at home and do not vote, that will decide this election, just as they did the last two.

The Good Lord only knows how many decent people died and were badly maimed to give people the right to vote in free elections, and what do they do?

Stay at home.

Perhaps we really do deserve the government we have :(

And the moral of this story is:

"The ONLY wasted vote is the one that is not cast."
 
Randy

You and I may have different methods of achieving the same desired goal [and mine are correct, of course :) ] but I agree 100% with you about this. Nations/populations really do deserve whatever they get. I'm just afraid that it's come down to that with the US.

I used to find it amusing when people talked about God lifting His hand from this nation. Now, I don't. I take solace in the fact that if it's this bad, the End Times can't be that far away. Whether that's the End Times of Revelations or the End Times in the interests of this nation going the way of the Roman Empire, at least this stage will be over.
 
George Bush speaks to the middle and governs to the right. Gore speaks to the middle and governs to communism. George does not always have the right thing to say and he may not be as fluid as Clinton and Gore in a debate. I for for one have witnessed eight years of someone who is fluid and seems to have the right verbage for every occassion. I have had enough of it.

Don't be mislead. Many negative things can be said of the Democrats but you can't accuse them of stupidity. I wish the same could be said of the Republicans. Don't think for once that the far left Dems will go for Ralph Nader, they're much too focused for this.

Go ahead and make yourself feel warm and cozy and stick your chest out while you go vote for Buchannan or Browne. Just remember to keep your chin up when Green Beret wannabes in black fatigues start going door to door asking for firearms license and registration. You can tell your Grandchildren who won't have the chance to hunt because it's too cumbersome to get a rifle or shotgun that you voted your conscious. You can also visit your priest, pastor or rabbi in prison to fill in the lost range time at holidays after they become incarcerated for speaking out on a moral issue that the Democrats have deemed at felony civil rights violation. You can kiss your grandchildren as they go off to serve under a German or Russian commander in a UN Army somewhere in a land where we have no vested interests. Don't worry you won't be too upset since you'll be busy working well into your retirement years to pay your "fair share" of taxes after the Democrats begin chiping away one by one all of the gains made by previous Republican Administrations so that they can continue to buy votes.

Yeah, forget about history and what Perot's candidacy did to this country. Vote your conscious so you'll have piece of mind.

------------------
"When guns are outlawed;I will be an outlaw."
 
Actually, Gore is by definition, a Socialist, not a Communist. Socialists do it bit by bit, Communists need a bloody revolution and immeadiate power. Same ends eventually, different means to get there.
I will vote my conscience. I will not buy off on the crap that my vote will either cause the Republicans to win or lose. In itself, the idea that voting for the best man is bad is a telling statement of our Republic. I will unashamedly vote for the man who most closely resembles what our founding fathers wanted, and what hundreds of thousands of men shed blood to preserve. Politics is not a "team sport" nor is it a "spectator sport". I would even vote Democrat if they produced someone worthy of a vote ( James Trafficant is close ), I don't vote a certain way to keep someone else from winning. Voting is a moral thing, and a personal thing. I will not share with others how I voted, but most of you will be able to guess. The Republicans are going the way of the Whig party that they themselves replaced. Let's not forget that the Republicans themselves were a third party too. There are still a bunch of Republicans who represent me. There are a bunch of Libertarians who represent me. There isn't any Democrats who represent me.
PEOPLE: When you go to the polls and stand in line, pick up the league of women voters flyers lying about, and read about each candidate. These are excellent flyers for information. Then cast your vote irrespective of political party, and soley based on the man running. There are liberal Republicans, Conservative Democrats (at least in the South), and of Course Libertarians HAVE TO TAKE AN OATH that they will NEVER INITIATE FORCE as a means of accomplishing political or other goals. But for God's sake, VOTE!
 
I want to keep my firearms, thank you, so I'll be voting for Bush. He has done good for us in Texas. He has to speak to the moderates and independents out there, but I assure you he will not take your guns away. Al Gore will. Period. Vote your conscience, but if some non-electable third party candidate steals this election from George W., and you contributed to it, I don't want to hear one gripe out of your mouth on this board. When you are shooting air guns and lamenting over the loss of your right to keep and bear arms, don't blame anyone but yourself. This election is for keeps in terms of our rights. We need to take this seriously. In a more conservative world, I'd be a libertarian. Right here, right now, we don't need to be pi$$ed off about assault weapon bans, we need to be worried about keeping the arms that we have, without licensing, registration, and eventual confiscation. That is where we are heading, folks. WAKE UP!!!!!!

[This message has been edited by Westtexas (edited July 08, 2000).]
 
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Westtexas:
I want to keep my firearms, thank you, so I'll be voting for Bush. He has done good for us in Texas. He has to speak to the moderates and independents out there, but I assure you he will not take your guns away. Al Gore will. Period. Vote your conscience, but if some non-electable third party candidate steals this election from George W., and you contributed to it, I don't want to hear one gripe out of your mouth on this board. When you are shooting air guns and lamenting over the loss of your right to keep and bear arms, don't blame anyone but yourself. This election is for keeps in terms of our rights. We need to take this seriously. In a more conservative world, I'd be a libertarian. Right here, right now, we don't need to be pi$$ed off about assault weapon bans, we need to be worried about keeping the arms that we have, without licensing, registration, and eventual confiscation. That is where we are heading, folks. WAKE UP!!!!!!
[/quote]

FYI, Westtexas,I finally woke up in 1996 when the Republican party fielded the next man in line for the nomination, Bob Dole, thank you very much.

Perhaps out in west Texas you do not see such things, but here in the People's Republik of Kalifornia, we are facing registration of assault weapons, gun owner licensing, ammo bans and lots of other gun control laws, not to mention hordes of Mexican and other illegal aliens flooding the borders for a free ride in the US, all courtesy of the American taxpayer, of course.

Perhaps it very easy for you living in west Texas, to claim Bush as some sort of savoir of gun rights, but out here in the land of liberal fascism, those of us who see thing in a different light, know better.

Gore or Bush, in the long run, it will matter very little.

IMO, your grandchildren will one day come to take your guns away, even in your presently gun-friendly state of Texas, the ones you hid for a "rainy day", and it will have not mattered a wit, because so many people had such a short-sighted view of the political world, and punched [R] on the ballot, thinking they were doing something productive in 2000.

They were not.

I'll say it again. You vote for anyone you want, West Texas. If that is what you think best for you, then of course that is what you should do.

I'll do the same.

I'll be voting for Harry Brown, a person who not only wants me to keep and bears arms with no restrictions, but belongs to a party dedicated to the removal of the massive amounts of government regulations, bureaucracy, untold waste and increasingly fascistic behavior control legislation aimed at removing what is left of our constitutional rights after years and years of abuse.

You go right ahead and vote for Bush , and its' going to be more of the same garbage we have been witnessing for the last 30 years.

IMO, the only real change you will see with DUHbya in the Whitehouse will be that the carpet in the Oval Office wont need cleaning as often.

George W. Bush = Business as Usual.

----

Harry Brown in 2000!!!

Go, Libertarian Party, Go !
 
Dennis,

You said, "Show me one federal gun law the Republicans repealed that stayed
repealed."

Surely both you and Mr. Browne must realize that it takes a firm Conservative majority in both houses of Congress to repeal that Federal law. The last time the Republicans had a firm majority in both houses was during the Eisenhauer Administration. To insist on bringing a repeal Bill to a vote, when there is no chance of passing, is worse than not bringing it up at all.

It has become very obvious that this is a Libertarian operated board, and no amount of logic and reason will prevail against "True Believers."

I think we have all hammered this horse to death, and neither side will convince the other, so I have decided on a course of action, and I hope others will do likewise.

I will make no further arguements for the Republicans, nor against the Libertarians
(with whom I agree on many issues).

The election will proceed, and when the totals are in, the combined count for 3rd party candidates will be less than 10%, with no electoral votes. Either Mr. Gore will win, or Mr. Bush will prevail. I maintain that there IS one heck of a difference between them for America's future. Two days after the election, the others who ran won't even make Section 'C' in the newspaper.


[This message has been edited by KAC556 (edited July 09, 2000).]
 
Randy, good to see you want Al Gore for president, because a vote for Browne is a vote for Gore. You may not realize it, but the reason that we have so much gun control is not the fault of Republicans---it's because the people are simply not with us on this issue anymore. Republicans have stood up at considerable cost politically to them to support us, and every time they do they get branded as the NRA poster boys. Most "sheeple" don't know anything about firearms except that they do a good job of killing people. Any candidate with Browne's extreme viewpoint (which I agree with, BTW) will not win as people will view him as a "gun nut". People who treasure the 2nd amendment will vote for him, but each vote will be a vote against G.W. Bush, who despite your respected opinion, is pro-gun. So, based on your values and morals, which I agree with, you will vote your conscience (which is not a bad thing) and Gore will be elected. Gore does want to take away your guns, and give him 4 years and a poorly educated public, and you'll have a better opportunity of owning a firearm in the Peoples Republic of China (which may be headquartered here soon, I might add) than you will in this country. Sorry Pard, I agree with your principles and your stand, but people like you are Al Gore's dream come true, and to quote my Savior, "you know not what you do".
 
You comment, “... no amount of logic and reason will prevail against ‘True
Believers’.”

True. True. That pertains to virtually *any* true believer. :)

You state, “To insist on bringing a repeal Bill to a vote, when there is no chance of
passing, is worse than not bringing it up at all.”

I disagree. If the Republicans truly believed in an issue, they would force a vote to
show the American people only Republicans believe in the Constitution. The Reps
could accuse the Dems of violating the sacred trust which our Founding Fathers
created for us and our ancestors and loved ones died to support.

For some reason, Republicans view the two major parties to be both independent
and (at least in reference to the Second Amendment) in opposition to each other.
However, I note that gun control laws have been proposed and supported by both
parties, working together, with the apparent goal of eventually eliminating personal
ownership of firearms.

The only difference between the two major parties (in reference to our RKBA)
pertains to the speed of change. The Republicans are willing to take the less
violent, slow path to the same tyranny which the Democrats want to implement
quickly.

Your “True Believers” comment seems to imply that anyone who does not share
your views lacks logic and reason. However:
- Republicans have not even attempted to repeal a single federal gun control law.
- Some Republicans have opposed some gun control proposals
sometimes - usually when the bill was so onerous as to endanger their favored
status and benefits.
- Republicans have signed every federal gun control law.
- Republicans, including Bush, continue to advocate gradually increasing gun
control.

Therefore, I can only believe that logic and reason both show the Republicans and
Democrats have the same strategy (eventual goal) of gun control. Democrats are
easily identified as gun control advocates. The Republicans, to their credit, merely
prefer less antagonistic (i.e. “sneakier”) tactics, therefore one must look at their
actions rather than their words.

That is why I can no longer support the Republicans as I did in the past ten
Presidential elections. That is why your “True Believer” concept applies as well to
supporters of virtually every persuasion.
-----


Westex,

“... good to see you want Al Gore for president, because a vote for Browne is a vote
for Gore.” Sarcastic, inaccurate, and a glib red herring.

“... the reason that we have so much gun control is not the fault of
Republicans---it's because the people are simply not with us on this issue
anymore.”
- Of course it’s the fault of Democrats AND Republicans who introduce, sponsor,
support and sign gun control legislation, regulations, and directives.
- It’s also the fault of the liberal press who believe their First Amendment Rights
should be stronger than our Second Amendment Rights. They don’t realize that the
Bill of Rights stands mostly because of the Second Amendment.
- It’s also the fault of the voters to support weaker gun control because they are
afraid of stronger gun control. Again, if gun owners had the faith of their
convictions, we could exert so much pressure on the Republicans they would quit
acting like Democrats.

I mean ... look at us.

We go see “The Patriot”. We get all teary-eyed (I sure did!) and profess to honor
the Founding Fathers and those brave souls who fought in the Revolutionary War
and every subsequent war to fight for freedom and liberty. But we, as gun owners,
do not have the personal conviction to argue with our legislators and convince them
we want them to live and breathe by the Constitution our forefathers died to enact
and support.

And, by the way, I know exactly what I am doing. I am trying to influence people
to get off their backsides and regain control of our government. If we can
do it by making Republicans return to their Republican roots, that’s great. But at
the moment, the Republicans may be more of a threat to our freedom than the
Democrats because the Judas Republicans have convinced us that the Republicans’
route to slavery is preferable to the Democrats’ route.

------------------
Either you believe in the Second Amendment or you don't.
Stick it to 'em! RKBA!

[This message has been edited by Dennis (edited July 09, 2000).]
 
Dennis,

The Judas Republicans? I doubt you would be owning any gun if the Repubs hadn't stood up to Klinton. Who was it that passed the Hostettler amendment that prevents preferential weapons contracts by Slick & Weasel to the military? The Libs? I don't think so. I really do respect your patriotism, I too am a patriot. But cutting off your nose to spite your face is not the option of a rational individual. Would you allow your child to drown to teach him a lesson? You seem to be willing to throw away your right to keep and bear arms to make a point to the Republicans. Poor decision making, in my opinion. A vote for a nonelectable candidate is a vote for Gore. Pure and simple. The fact that Browne is running and knows he CAN'T WIN tells me he is willing to throw away our 2nd amendment rights. If he cared about gun ownership, and he knows he cannot win, he must not be supporting our cause.
 
Dennis,

You said, "You state, “To insist on bringing a repeal Bill to a vote, when there is no chance of
passing, is worse than not bringing it up at all.”

I disagree. If the Republicans truly believed in an issue, they would force a vote to
show the American people only Republicans believe in the Constitution. The Reps
could accuse the Dems of violating the sacred trust which our Founding Fathers
created for us and our ancestors and loved ones died to support."

I'd like to remind you that a Republican sponsered bill to repeal the '94 A.W. ban WAS introduced in the last Congress by Rep. Bob Barr (R). As I recall, it had about 22 co-sponsers (all Republican). After debate in Committee, they decided to shelve it. Why? Because, even if, by some miracle, it had gotten through the House and Senate, The S.I.C. (Socialist in Chief) would have vetoed it. It would then take a 2/3 vote in both houses to over-ride his veto. The Republicans don't have that kind of majority. Moreover, in the wake of Columbine, etc. it would have unleashed a tirade from the anti-gun media, in Klinton's pocket, and cost support from the (largely neutral) "sheeple." Hence; they decided to shelve it until after the next election when the odds are better.

Whether you, and I like it, or not; the majority of the American voters are undecided on the issue of Gun Rights, and are easily swayed by events of the moment. Taking an "all-or-nothing-at-all" approach on this issue will have consequences that neither of us desire.

My definition of a "True Believer," is someone who, despite all evidence to the contrary, continues to persist in his position. I believe that your statement: "I can only believe that logic and reason both show the Republicans and
Democrats have the same strategy (eventual goal) of gun control," falls into the catagory of a "True Believer."
 
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