Is it just me, or is it 1992 all over again?

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buzz_knox

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Let's see. We have a choice between (1) someone we know to be crooked, corrupt, interested in a socialist agenda, and who's opposed to liberty and (2) someone who may not be the best we could hope for, but generally thinks the way we do, and has proven his support for our issue (to a far greater extent than his father). From this choice, we get a lot of gunowners' saying, "vote third party, send a message, even if we don't win!"

Hmm. We lost in '92. We lost in '96 for similar reasons (Dole wasn't conservative enough for those who prefered psycho Perot). Will we lose in '00? You so-called third party voters are the ones to decide.

[This message has been edited by buzz_knox (edited July 07, 2000).]
 
Dunno - would like to see a lot of third party for Nader.

Libertarians? That's, like, 6th party - they don't even rate as good as Buchanan.


Battler.
 
Knock it off. That means Republicans *and* (l|L)ibertarians.

Sneering at and belittling your allies is about the worst thing you can do. How about those of you who keep provoking these fights start attacking the real enemy?
 
Coinneach

Not provoking a fight, I'm just trying to get people to understand the real world. I've gone up against the real enemy on many occasions. I just know that the real enemy is only in a position to do what it has done because so many of our "allies" allowed it to happen.

As an attorney, let me emphasize how critical this next election is. The next president will get to pick at least three Supreme Court judges. They will establish the law of the land for years to come. If we lose this election, we will lose much more than the "privilege" to own weapons. A wasted vote is, in effect, a vote for tyranny. That's a fact, not a snipe or a belittling statement.
 
buzz, you've got a good point. This year is not the year to waste a vote on someone who has very little chance of getting in.
 
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by buzz_knox:
Coinneach
A wasted vote is, in effect, a vote for tyranny. That's a fact, not a snipe or a belittling statement.[/quote]

No sir. That's not a fact, it's an opinion.

Speaking of opinions, mine is that no vote is wasted if you actually believe in the person or issue for which you're voting. I know this will outrage the more "practical" people out there, but I simply cannot vote for Bush simply because he's not as bad as Gore. If Bush takes back his anti-gun and anti-freedom statements, fine, he'll get my vote. But not until then.

As I said before, knock off the insults. That doesn't mean you, Buzz, that means everyone.

Clear?
 
We can't afford another four years of this sort of abuse from the present administration.
We all need to stick together and get the Democrats out of the White House even if it means voting for someone we aren't entirely satisfied with.
Quite frankly, I feel a third party candidate has even less of a chance in this election than in the last two.
 
Four more years of:

illegal misuse of the IRS to carry out pogroms against political opponents;

illegal use of federal agencies to gather intel on opposition groups;

using FBI background files of opponents as fodder for political campaigns, when even unauthorized viewing of said files, let alone using the information contained therein, is a violation of federal law;

firing federal employees so that your cronies can have a cushy job and then knowingly bringing false criminal charges when the employee raises a fuss;

conducting illegal backroom meetings intended to nationalize health care (1/7 of our economy);

providing technology to nations with the declared intent of preparing for war against us, said technology having included the bus mechanisms required for MIRVs;

evading the Constitution by using the courts and executive orders to achieve what you desire.

No offense, but doesn't that sound like tyranny? Do you all feel freer today than in 1989 . . . 1988 . . . 1987? I don't. And, as an attorney for the federal gov't, I know what my dear cohorts can and will do if the gloves really come off.
 
Bottom/Buz/FUD...agreed. Yes I would love to see a Liberatarian candidate in there...and since Pres "slick my cigars, baby" has passed the EO it might be easier to get things done. However, I've known for years since the Perot fiasco..[I was a photojournalist then as well as a 'newz' writer] that unless the third party carries a 40 to 50% holding in the polls that we'll get either Demoncrats or Rebupicans. That isn't going to happen this year. So...No one who would vote for Gore will vote either Repub or Third party. Gore has his gravy train lined up. That leaves either 'we' get it together and vote Bush in or we split the ticket and it's "4 more years" of what we've had for the last 8....THEN There is a good chance Hitlery will run after THOSE 4 years and Gore will 'back out' of the next election.

Do the numbers. And then decide your vote.
 
I've decided that I'll vote Libertarian in most local instances, from now on.

I will continue to vote Republican in state and national elections until a viable, mainstream candidate emerges from the Libertarian party.

(Take the small victories, before you move on to the larger battles.)
 
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Hmm. We lost in '92. We lost in '96 for similar reasons (Dole wasn't conservative enough for those who prefered psycho Perot).[/quote]

Bush would have lost worst if Perot wasn't in the race. Perot didn't win a single state, and his votes weren't enough to turn the tide in those states to Bush. Bush ran a loser campaign.

Same thing for 1996. Dole ran an even worse campaign.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Will we lose in '00? You so-called third party voters are the ones to decide.
[/quote]

I don't think we'll decide. I'm voting for Buchanan, plenty of people will vote for Nader, and plenty of people will vote for the Libertarians. It will be a wash. Bush will have to win on his own. I just won't vote for the sucker.

There isn't much of a difference anyway between he and Gore. Look at NAFTA, WTO, taxes, social security, education, etc. They are really close.

As for guns, sure he's done well in Texas, but he's made it clear that AT BEST he won't impose any new laws on us.

As for the Supreme Court, just who do you think he'll appoint? Look at the current court--mostly appointed my Republicans. There's only two goods on there.

This country is going to hell in a basket. Until we get rid of the GOP and the Democrat strangle-holds, it doesn't matter who you vote for.
 
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Monkeyleg:
Bush has said that his favorite Supreme Court justice is Scalia. That in and of itself says a lot.[/quote]


That's what he said. Do you actually believe him? Look what his father and Reagan did.
 
I've given this a lot of consideration this year. I used to be a Republican. Now I'm registered as a Libertarian. Constitution Party might be able to swing my vote, though.

You can't get there from here, folks.

You can't expect politicos with a stake in growing the Federal Monstrosity to do the right thing and preserve your freedoms.

Case in point: Free Dope under the guise of expanding Medicare to cover prescription drugs for the elderly. Pure Socialistic income re-distribution scheme. Republicans like Bush, if he had any principle, would oppose it. BUT WAIT! This is the blue-hair, AARP vote and Gore is touting his plan and getting lots of response. The media is keeping the issue out front of the people. So what does Bushie do? Why, come out with his own semi-privatized plan of course. It will still cost us all money. And its still UnConstitutional (like anybody in DC really cares, but it is).

Get the picture? The Republicans HAVE to keep expanding The Beast. To do otherwise would make them, well, just like the Libertarians. Small and appealing only to freedom lovers.

Political realities aside, I'm not "wasting my vote" for the flip-side of Socialism. The Republic is probably lost anyway, I'm going to watch us go to a "mobocracy" with a clear conscience though.

HARRY BROWNE 2000!!!!!!!!!!!!

(Read my thread about the "good reason to vote Libertarian")
 
Jack

Yea Harry Browne 2000!!!! Al Gore needs all the help he can get!!!!


Having said that... I agree there is very little difference between the Republicans and the Democrats. The only difference between the Republicans and the Democrats is that the Democrats have us on a faster sleigh ride to the place that burns with fire and brimstone than the Republicans. Does this mean that I am going to vote for an alternative third party candidate instead of a Republican this fall? The answer to that question is still NO, at least not this time! The stakes are just too high! Here is a post I made a while back on this subject that explains how I feel...


"Dennis,

You have been around longer than me and you have seen a lot more elections come and go than I. I respect your opinion and believe it or not, for the most part I even agree with exactly what you are saying. I want to vote Libertarian this year, but I just can't. The stakes are just too high.

Dennis, I think that if you will really look at our situation this year and compare it to years past, you will see that this is not any "normal" election where people often say that we need to vote Republican "just this one more time." The Second Amendment is under attack like NEVER before. The Supreme Court will need as many as four new judges, Al Gore wants to register firearm's owners and handguns with the ultimate goal of confiscation, and every firearm manufacturer in this country is under direct attack by our own Commander In Chief. Can't you honestly see that this year is different from most?

During any war there is a time to advance and certain times where a strategic retreat is necessary. I really would like to advance with a third party candidate for president this year, but right now it is time for a strategic retreat. We need to fall back and regroup the Supreme Court and we need to bring up some supplies from the rear and take care of these damn frivolous lawsuits against law-abiding firearms manufacturers. We have got to keep Al Gore from being elected at all costs! Voting third party this year is just plain not smart.

When the weather clears, after we have regrouped, and after we have been resupplied, I will be proud to follow you into battle by backing whatever third party candidate you choose, but until then we have to back Bush. It is the only logical thing to do.

Sincerely
Joe"

It is imperative that Al Gore not be elected! Voting for a conservative third party candidate that has no chance of winning is a vote for Al Gore any way you slice it. Let's get these attacks on honest gun owners and firearms manufacturers stopped once and for all and then we can reinvent the wheel if you want to.

Now you can play games if you want to and take a chance on Al Gore being elected by voting for Browne, but not me. I will not cut off my nose to spite my face. That is just plain childish and very short sided!

Joe
http://second.amendment.homepage.com
 
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by nralife:
Jack

Does this mean that I am going to vote for an alternative third party candidate instead of a Republican this fall? The answer to that question is still NO, at least not this time! The stakes are just too high! [/quote]

Don't you realize that's what you say every four years!!! When we will you wake up?

I woke up this year. I won't waste another vote on people like Bush.
 
Matt,

When in this country's history has it's own Commander In Chief led an all out attack on legitimate firearms manufacturers? When have we ever had over thirty states, cities, and even a cabinet department (HUD) trying to sue legitimate gun makers into bankruptcy because they couldn't have their way in Congress? The gun makers are on the verge of bankruptcy and a Republican President and Congress could put a stop to all of this madness caused by the frivolous lawsuits. If gun makers can be sued into bankruptcy, who is going to be next? Bible makers? Automobile makers? No one will be safe.

Gore wants licensing of gun owners and registration of firearms. We all know where that leads... CONFISCATION! When have we had to face this very real posssiblity in the past?

As Jim pointed out, the next president will nominate as many as 4 new Supreme Court justices. Emerson is on the way there, as are some other cases like the one from California, it is an absolute necessity that Al Gore not be picking those judges.

The bottom line is this... The only REAL hope of stopping the antigunners for good without taking up arms in defense of 2nd Amendment rights is a Supreme Court decision that will settle this issue once and for all. We have a very small window of opportunity coming up this November where we can try to stop this thing without bloodshed, and we have to take it. A vote for anybody besides Bush and progun Republicans (and a few Democrats) is a vote to let the shooting begin. Please think long and hard before you decide to take that road!

We don't say this every four years! Never before has this country been in this position!!!

Sincerely,
Joe

(Personal attacks edited by Dennis. I've warned you, Joe.)


http://second.amendment.homepage.com



[This message has been edited by Dennis (edited July 07, 2000).]
 
Thanks Matt.

I'm right there with ya, bro.

I hate having 2 threads covering the same ground.

Here's my "final answer":

Freedom is as Freedom does. Call it the Forrest Gump answer to politics for me this year. Republicans haven't supported Freedom issues. They become more hostile to Freedom with every passing year. We keep voting for them because they're better than the alternative. Well, that ain't the way. I'm not buying into it anymore.

The reason things are the way they are is because millions of us buy in to this proposition. Someone, somewhere needs to stand up and start turning the tide, or as Boortz puts it, "prime the pump." May as well be me, may as well be now. Can't think of a better time or place for it.

I'm almost encouraged it might even work sometimes. Hell, 1/3 of all Americans haven't even sent the Census form back! May just be there's more of "us" than we think......
 
nralife,

Here's a little tip for you: When attempting to persuade someone to your point of view, its best not to insult them.

Matt's got a legitimate position and a legitimate point to make. And he didn't slam you. Take it easy. Or better yet, make your point in a more persuasive manner. Won't work on me, but maybe Matt can be brought to your side.
 
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by nralife:
Matt,

You are one dim bulb!!![/quote]

True enough, but there's no reason to be rude. We're among friends.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>
We don't say this every four years! Never before has this country been in this position!!! Open your eyes and look around boy!!!
[/quote]

Sigh. Would you like me to find examples of our saying this every four years? Trust me, we do. They get us to.

Our only hope is to get rid of the party that makes an assault weapons ban, trigger locks, common sense gun control, and the Brady Bill possible. This party does it through lack of fighting and in some cases outright cooperation with the Democrats.

The Republicans, my boy.


[This message has been edited by MattC58 (edited July 07, 2000).]
 
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