is claiming that a manufacturer is overrated such a horrible offense?

T

tahunua001

New member
ok fellas,
I started a thread on another board about a recent purchase I made and in the title I stated that the manufacturer is overrated. I listed the things about the gun I didn't like, and things that definitely should not be present in a handgun of it's price bracket, and just to be fair I added a couple positive things about the gun that I can't complain about. I was expecting a few guys to get upset and tell me that I don't know what I'm talking about and leave it at that but the sheer number of people who took extreme offense at the allegations is mind boggling. I know we all have a favorite brand that we like to tout but is it really so bad that people are not willing to even entertain the idea of shoddy worksmanship?
 
well HK and colt are usually at the top of my list but for the sake of keeping this purely neutral, I'll avoid listing the real company
 
IMHO - telling it like it is shouldn't be a problem.

Problem is, way too many people have this thing about things they like. For some reason they take it as a personal slap in the face if you point out something they don't agree with.

It's not like anyone here makes the gun ya know?
 
I caught "heck" several times for listing the problems I had with Colt 1911's...things as you say should have kept them from leaving the Colt facility in the condition that they did. There is a point at which some/most humans stop using logic and switch to emotion.
 
It is what it is. I can tell you that my 1991 Colt is the most over rated firearm I own (just had to have the pony). I did get it at a decent price nib but if I were to do it again I would have gone with something else.
 
I think it's how it's presented. I see a lot of posts where it's pretty obvious the person starting the post doesn't have a clue about what he's talking about. It's pretty annoying to read some of this stuff when you simply would like to tell the person to come back when they have some cred and know the subject matter. Just saying....I guess it depends who you are and what you have to say. Don't try to come across as an expert if you aren't.
 
Not many of us can claim to be experts on even a few guns or gun types, let alone on all of them, so it is a good idea to take any "comment" or "review" as, at best, applying only to the example the poster covers. Nor are any of us so expert that we cannot make the mistake of assuming that because the particular gun we own has given good service that all guns of that make and/or model will be equally good.

There is a lot of good ol' macho pride involved also. No one wants to experience satisfaction with a product, only to have others denigrate it, even if the comments are based on considerable experience. It's the way the world works.

Jim
 
Internet forums are fickle. Post the same exact info again a month from now on the same forum and you may get the exact opposite response and have the majority agree with you.

I've found a lot depends on which direction the 1st couple of posts take. The rest seem to want to pile on. People who disagree with the majority often will just not reply.
 
I research a lot of purchases and an honest opinion as the OP described would be the one that catches my eye. A lot of biases can muddy up the truth, but you can pick out the truth if you read carefully.
I prefer honest assessments no matter if it hurts my feelings about my favorite products.
I rarely get surprised by a purchase. I have taken chances on purchases, for lack of honest feedback.
 
There is another real problem with internet forums and guns in particular.

These gun forums are filled with people that have little to no gun knowledge from firsthand experience. There are so many people on these gun forums that despite having thousands of posts...have very little actual experience with guns, ammo, even less with reloading and virtually none of casting bullets. And, believe it or not, casters and reloaders are typically the most knowledgeable about firearms due to the fact that they, by and large, shoot much more than those gun owners that don't. When you start crafting bullets and developing loads...you really learn guns. You learn the ones that are trustworthy and durable. You learn the ones that will actually perform as they are suppose to. And, you learn this because you put a LOT of different rounds through a LOT of different guns. At any rate, these resident experts, repeatedly, regurgitate what they read on the internet...not what they know for fact. Now, if you have true firearms experience, you can pickup on these guys, pretty quickly. But, they do a disservice to the folks that come on forums to learn...because they are learning from guys that really don't know what they are talking about. I could name more than 5 members on this forum, that are considered authorities on all things gun...that are really talking out of their butt, because they have so little hands on experience with the things they post about. Not trying to be ugly, but, you have to understand that ignorance runs deep on most of these gun forums.

So, it does not really surprise me that you had that experience...it is just par for the course.
 
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Most of us just help when we can.
What I notice most, is most people will defend guns they own or like.

I have found some internet gun lore about particular makes and models to be false in many cases, or luck of the draw.

Mini14, my case is anecdotal, mine has been fabulous. There's enough internet evidence that many are inaccurate. I've defended it. I now realize and accept that some are bad.

Many posters here evolve over time, mostly matured. I've posted obnoxious stuff in the past, trolled a few.
When I joined I came in from the Wild West of the Internet; forums were brutal. This one has rules, it taught me manners.
I try to give a layman's perspective and not as an expert; but I've learned so much here.
I've seen odd reactions to some people's posts. Just goes with the times.
Some is just simple miscommunications, poor wording and rushed posts.

In the end, TFL has great staff and mods. This is a good forum, and I keep coming back.
 
Internet forums are fickle. Post the same exact info again a month from now on the same forum and you may get the exact opposite response and have the majority agree with you.

I've found a lot depends on which direction the 1st couple of posts take. The rest seem to want to pile on. People who disagree with the majority often will just not reply.
Click to expand...
Ain't that the truth!
 
An incomplete list of truths that many people do not understand:

1. You are not your gun and your gun is not you. Therefore negative comments about a gun you own are not insults directed at you. Along the same lines, the guns/firearms manufacturers you like/prefer are not you and you are not the guns/firearms manufacturers you like/prefer.

2. Different people have different requirements, experience, preferences and tastes. Therefore the fact that someone bought a different gun than you did doesn't require that they be less intelligent/discerning/informed/experienced than you are. Conversely, their purchase of a different gun than you have doesn't automatically mean that they must think you are unintelligent and inexperienced.

3. If we are ever restricted to just one firearm manufacturer and just one model of gun, and just one caliber in that gun, and just one finish option, then people will argue vehemently about the choice of sights and feel insulted when someone chooses a different sight option than they did. People have a strong need to form tribes and many will go to any lengths to find ways to divide those they interact with into tribes, even if it requires being ridiculous.

4. The word "best" without any qualifications is at worst an ego-inflating lie or trolling and at best strong evidence that the person making the statement has some sort of mental disability. Examples. [A Glock 19 is the best pistol. Not if you are shooting Olympic competitions, it's not. Not if you will be using it to hunt bison, it's not.] [Remington makes the best firearms. Not if you need a double rifle for elephant hunting. Not if you want a high capacity .40S&W polymer pistol. Not if you need a concealable revolver.]

5. People go to great lengths to disguise their personal opinions as knowledge, experience, intelligence, research, etc. rather than just stating them as opinions. They do this to fool not only those around them, but also often to fool themselves. This ego-investment/rationalization results in more friction than would otherwise be encountered when people voice differing opinions. Example. [I have a lot more experience with guns than most people because I shoot a lot/reload thousands of rounds a year/refinish my own guns/cast my own bullets/do my own gunsmithing and therefore when I say that SIGs are god's gift to gun owners, anyone who says differently is obviously ignorant.]
 
I sure think Colt is overrated. I had so many problems with my Commander that I finally gave up. It went back to Colt and came back with the same FTF & FTE problems that it had before. Different ammo didn't help, I tried lots. Different magazines too. I finally sold it and bought a Springfield Armory EMP. Not a single problem with it ever. Springfield is underrated IMO.
 
Many of us shooters, collectors, enthusiasts, and "fanboys" can become overzealous because of our true passion. No gun is perfect out of the box. Some need some gunsmith TLC. Some need aftermarket parts. Some have a wide selection of aftermarket pasts. Some do not. Each us of are different. Different levels of experience, skill, limitations, and sizes. I have a good amount of experience. I have average to long fingers. My hand strength and finger strength are high. I don't have tremors. I'm correctable to 20/20. I'm in good health. Others have short fingers. Blocks probably aren't for them. Some people have limited budgets. Maybe a Wilson is never in their future. Some people may not have the time or resources to try different ammo in a gun
, or even reload. I do. I shoot two times a week. I try different ammo until I find one that the gun likes. So I also reload and find a load that works best for my 1911s, my Coonan 357 Magnum, and my Smith and Wesson revolvers. They're dialed in. Some people aren't that fortunate. So just research it and find out what works best for someone else and try it. That works to some degree, though temperature, humidity, elevation and wind are big variables.

I belong to a private gun club. I can rapid fire, slow fire, whatever. We can even practice drawing. But one has to be safety minded. No one has ever been shot or had a negligent discharge. We like to keep it that way. I learn a lot from just talking to fellow shooters, and even trying their guns. Unfortunately for me, I end up buying something that I see. That is what introduced Smith and Wessons to me. Same with a Ruger.

Everyone will however have an opinion. But it's just that. An opinion. I don't take that stuff personally. They're just words. We are all passionate about our lifestyle, livelihood, hobbies, careers.

You can ignore the following if you wish...if you haven't ignored it by now.

I have many firearms from different makers and no allegiance to one. If there were a perfect gun for everyone, we wouldn't have the variations that we do. I was in the Navy and the Beretta was the service pistol. I tried to like it but I hated it. Yet, I still acquired a PX4 and 92 FS. I hate the opposite action of the safety from a 1911. I got rid of them, finally.

There is a lot of love of HK. I had the 45C, 45 USP and Mark 23. The magazine release is not conventional. I kept my Mark 23 because I love everything about it. But I got rid of the USP and 45C. I don't care for the triggers on them.

I have owned a lot of Sig Sauers. P220, P238, P938, P522, P229, and now the P229 Legion. The triggers out of the box, are a tad gritty for the P238 and P938. But with more shooting, the turned out fine. The capacity and thickness of the P220 was something I didn't care for compared to my 1911s so I got rid of it, though it shot well. My P229 Legion has an amazing trigger and feels like a Performance Center trigger on a revolver.

I have owned Colt pythons. Quirky reverse rotation of the cylinder compared to S&W. initially loving the triggers for the smoothness, after acclimating to my S&W Performance Centers, I felt they were too spongy. I had a 4", 6" and 8" python. Sold the 8" because it was too barrel heavy (though my 7.5" PC S&W 44 Magnum doesn't feel that way). Gave my 4" Colt python to my brother in law since it was a grail gun to him, and I was going to give it to him in my will. I said, F it, enjoy it while I'm still alive. So I sent it to him. I'm going to get rid of the 6" barrel python. It's a beautiful piece and shoots well. But it is highly overrated.

I have had the Glock 23,27,26,30,36,42. Love the simplicity and the trigger. Reliable. Ugly and boxy. I got rid of the 36 because of capacity. It had limited utility in the comparison to my 1911s. Got rid of my 27, 26 also. I loved them but I needed some work done on my house so I gave them to my contractor as partial payment.

Springfield XD and XDM. I love the grip safety feature, the cocked indicator, and the chamber status. I love the triggers. I love the accuracy. It's reliable. They're also ugly as hell to me. I shot the heck out of them. I didn't have a need for them so I sold them. I favor my 357 and 1911s more.

1911s: I had acquired two Kimbers. The beautiful Raptor II (Ultra and Pro). Loved the look. Accurate. Reliability was not there. Traded them off. Overrated to me. Reliability out of the box was a necessity to me.

1911s: Ended up getting a Guncrafter, Wilson CQB, Ed Brown Kobra, Ed brown special forces, Mars Armament THUG, Coonan 357 Magnum 191. Love all of them. Super accurate. Reliable. The Guncrafter I acquired from someone else. It was the No Name. I shot it, and it consistently shot low. I asked the guy I acquired it from and he said it had no issues from him. I kept on shooting it, and it was set up more for POI as opposed to POA. I wanted to stay consistent from one 1911 to another. It had to go.

Diamondback DB. Worst gun I ever had. Not reliable from the start. Didn't even use 9mm +P and the frame cracked at #535. They graciously replaced it for me. I graciously sold it. Great trigger. Quite accurate but not reliable. Never had an issue with a G42 or a G43. Definitely was the gun. I don't limp wrist.

Ruger GP100 (4, 6"), Mark II Target Comp. good triggers. Accurate out of the box. The Mark II, though needed a trigger job so I went with a Volquartsen. World of difference. Out of the box the Mark II was, Meh. With the Volquartsen, it's a different breed. Tough as a tank bodies. Reliable. I would never trade these for the world. Inexpensive. Great guns for the money. Underrated in my opinion to other brands. I won't argue. I don't care.

Smith and Wesson Performance Center Hunter 7.5" 44 Mag. Love it. Love the trigger. Great accuracy. Nothing to complain. Other than it is huge and I need a Bandolier holster when carrying it in the woods. I have an Aimpoint H1 on it, and I reload for her. Perfection. No Complaints. S&W 586 L-Comp and 627 PC 357. same story. love it. I love my S&W Snubby 442 and 640. No issues. Big fan of S&W triggers. Smoothest triggers in my hands. Super accurate. Big fan. If people don't care for it, I'm ok with that. Maybe they're overrated but I don't care. They make me happy. They're superior to a Colt for action, accuracy and capacity.

Bottom line. Enjoy what you have. Learn it's limitations and quirks or just move on to something else. No one's opinions matter. Their experiences, though, are something to learn from.





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It's been my personal experience that those with the loudest opinions are usually those with the least knowledge.
On any subject, or should that be on every subject.
So, don't sweat it.
 
Welcome to humanity. Before forums gun shops could easily be as bad, sometimes worse.


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One of my pet peeves is people who make overly broad, sweeping generalizations, as if they were accurate fact.

I probably do it too, though I try not to, when it comes to guns (or anything else) where I have personal experience.

Another thing about someone/thing being "overrated" is that I may not have heard the same "rating" that you have.

Got any idea how many times we hear/see "XXXX is crap" because the complainer got one that was less than his expectations??, let alone one that actually had some flaw or defect?

Lots. ;)
 
It's been my personal experience that those with the loudest opinions are usually those with the least knowledge.
On any subject, or should that be on every subject.
So, don't sweat it.
Click to expand...

Does it go boom when I pull the trigger? Is it comfortable & accurate? Does it fire cartridge X?

Sold.
 
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