Is America a police state?

Tamara, you are a cynic!!

Welcome.

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You have to be there when it's all over. Otherwise you can't say "I told you so."

Better days to be,

Ed
 
What Tamara said!!!

Take a look at the IRS, the SEC, or traffic laws. All the rules are written in such a way that all those who are subject to them are in violation of some. I heard that the Chairman of the SEC once state that they write regulations that are impossible to follow, so that they always have the power to discipline those who have "fraudulant intent". How's that for scary.

Rob
 
I have recently reread George Orwell's "1984". The most interesting thing is that you can easily see all of the facets of oppression in that book here in the US, in everyday life in one form or another, albeit less severe in most cases. I recommend everyone on this board to take the time to read this novel and reflect on how frighteningly simliar it is to modern American life. We still do not have Orwell's "Ministry of Love" (i.e. the Gestapo), but the common abuses of the BATF, FBI, War on Drugs, and most especially the IRS almost are the same. We do have the Thought Police (aka Political Correctness), cameras in public places watching us and so on. The police state of 1984 is more or less here (try to think one any area of human existance that is NOT regulated by our government) except there two important differnces 1) the technology to implement a complete totilatarian police state such as in the novel is not available (but we are close!) and 2) the forms of control are much less overt and direct, we is very important to divert attention, stem alarm and ultimately usurp more power from the people.
 
Oh, and George Orwell was NOT off by 16 years.... a very important point of the novel introduce early on was that no one could say for certain that the date was 1984-- it could have been 1985 or 1986, or the year 2000 for that matter. Why? Because in order to rewrite history, it was essential history be destroyed by taking away the people's ability to keep track of it. Therefore no one knew the actual date. THe most important principle of Big Brother was "He who controls the past, controls the future. He who controls the present, controls the past". Fortunately, we've never seen history re-written here.
 
Some people are physical health junkies. Myself, I treat my body like a temple... to Bacchus.

On the other hand, I make it a point every couple of months to read; Orwell's 1984, the Apology of Socrates, and Thoreau's On Resistance to Civil Government (better known as On the Duty of Civil Disobediance). These are the equivalent of mental and philosophical free weights; accessible, quick, and great toners for your head muscle. None of them represents more than a few hours steady reading, and they're full of quotes and concepts that are important to keep at the ready when dealing with the sheeple and doing your part as a footsoldier for freedom. Remember: Free your mind, and your ass will follow!

Today's Quotes:
"And if all others accepted the lie which the Party imposed—if all records told the same tale—then the lie passed into history and became truth. 'Who controls the past' ran the Party slogan, 'controls the future: who controls the present controls the past.'" -Orwell, 1984 On the distortions of the 2nd Amendment's meaning

"And (my accusers) are many, and their charges against me are of ancient date, and they were made by them in the days when you were more impressionable than you are now - in your childhood, or it may have been in your youth - and the cause when heard went by default, for there was none there to defend me." -Socrates, Apology, on why we need Eddie Eagle...

"Law never made men a whit more just; and, by means of their respect for it, even the well-disposed are daily made the agents of injustice." -Thoreau, On Resistance to Civil Government describing how bad laws can ruin a good society...


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"..but never ever Fear. Fear is for the enemy. Fear and Bullets."
10mm: It's not the size of the Dawg in the fight, it's the size of the fight in the dog!
 
You still have the right to tell the police to get off your property if they don't have a warrant. The local police like to do what they call "knock and talk." They knock on your door and check you out. You have the right not to answer the door. You can go about your business and just ignore them if you want.

But if they think they need a warrant, they'll get one.
 
Wormtown and Tamara - I second what you say about 1984. A must-read every couple of years or so.

Interesting thing about Oceania in 1984 -- there were NO LAWS anymore (and of course no due process). But you could be punished for vague offenses like THOUGHTCRIME and FACECRIME. Sort of like the crime of "conspiracy" and the entangling web of forfeiture laws that we have now - "ok, now you have to prove yourself innocent!"
 
If it got to be anymore of a police state I'd have to be handcuffed to a .gov sanctioned "watcher" 24-7 so he could be sure I didn't get out of line. Although when they pass the visual awareness home safety act of 2003 I'm sure that'll be taken care of.
 
alan: I've noticed exactly what you commented on. I worked in the "environmental bidness" in 1975-1979, and became highly aware of the "...secretary...shall promulgate..."

Tamara: That's a main point of "Atlas Shrugged", of course--just staying alive necessitates breaking *some* law. As a minor data-point, in 1964 I heard a city judge comment that he doubted he could drive from the north edge of Austin, Texas, to the south edge without breaking at least one (if not more) traffic laws.

Later, Art
 
Re America, The Police State??, may I again suggest for reading, Unintended Consequences, by John Ross, longish, but interesting.
 
Yes it is. I dont do long post, and dont quote a lot of stuff,( I am a hunt and peck person) all you have to do is look around. It is everywhere.



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"Defiance"
And yet...it moves
(Galileo Galilie)
 
Of course it is..........................

Just because your paraniod..

Does'nt mean your not being followed...

Just follow the Yellow Brick Road..
 
I thought this issue was settled when Lincoln used the U.S Army and Navy to conquer all of the states. And then we got income taxes, prohibition, the draft(males only), Social Security, The New Deal and a bunch of other Big Brother crackpot schemes when all that power went to their heads. John
 
Definately! However, I believe that some states are worse than others. When I lived in Illinois, a State Trooper pulled me over to ask for some money. When he didn't get it he wrote me two contradicting tickets. When I went to court and he didn't show, they made me come back instead of dismissing it. When he didn't shw the 2nd time, and after me taking another afternoon off of work, they had no choice but to dismiss me and stop trying to extort me.
 
Along the lines of what Tamara said, it is especially useful if a web of laws entraps a specific target group that the gov't is interested in controlling to a high degree.

From another forum: "Senate Bill SB-2099 will require us to put on our 2000 1040 federal tax form all guns that you have or own. It may require fingerprints and a tax of $50 per gun. Go to http://www.senate.gov/ and type in SB-2099 for details."

Here's my take on it:

It's easy to see the motive of this bill.
Here's a hint: It's not to increase revenue.

How many guns do you own, or your brother, or that guy you always see at the range?

There are some people I know and/or know of that have 50, 100, and even 200 personal firearms.

(And no Mrs. Brady, he is not a psychokillergangbangerschoolshooterupper.)

So, a potential $10,000 annual tax?
Quite obviously many (most?) gun enthusiasts would not comply with this law.

Which, bingo, automatically makes them felons (tax evasion) and ineligable to own/possess/handle firearms.

Then, they are instantly felons in possession of firearms, leading to forfeiture/seizure and further legal penalties.

Wouldn't even have the chance to sell the guns to someone of your choosing. (They're "evidence".)

This just might be the most threatening bill to come around yet.
Even worse than Bill.

Now that is what I call a police state.

-Kframe
 
What K-Frame and Tamara and all the others said: the only question is whether it will be " Unintended Consequences " or " Sunset at Coffin Rock ". I'm really getting too old for either sort of thing , but if it comes, it comes! They say that your status in Valhalla is proportionate to the size of the honor guard You take with You!
crankshaft
paranoia is a GREAT thing to have when they actually are out to get You!!!
 
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