Until recently, I've been set on the xd mod.2 subcompact. I love the compact frame for carry and the idea of having the full size mag that comes with it. However, I recently got to handle and shoot a glock 43 and I like how it felt. I'm reading a lot of posts where people seem to like it, and have begun carrying it more than any of their other guns. I like the g43, but I am hung up on buying it because of the low round count compared to the xd. Is the glock 43 a sufficient weapon to defend myself with in realistic concealed carry and HD scenarios, or would the xd be better? Also, I'm 5'9, 150 with an athletic build. Would the xd be too bulky to carry compared to the smaller g43? Some people have referred to the xd as a brick in other posts.
Is a single stack enough?
- Thread starter Jacket67
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My two main CC's are the Shield 7&8+1 and the LCP 6+1.
I also have a 642 in the safe I just don't carry it any longer.
I tired several of the thick as a brick double stacks in my quest for the perfect CCW (g26, p229, M&P 9c, PT145) and for my mode of carry (leather OWB) they're just too big and bulky. So far I've only found the Taurus G2 to be near thin enough to CC.
I also have a 642 in the safe I just don't carry it any longer.
I tired several of the thick as a brick double stacks in my quest for the perfect CCW (g26, p229, M&P 9c, PT145) and for my mode of carry (leather OWB) they're just too big and bulky. So far I've only found the Taurus G2 to be near thin enough to CC.
A single stack is enough.
Except when it's not.
There are a number of ways to look at this.
You can prepare based on the overall stats of needing a gun. If you take that approach then the odds are good you won't ever have to fire a gun in self-defense. So a single stack (or even an unloaded gun) would do the trick.
You can prepare based on the stats of how many shots are fired in an average gunfight. I think the commonly quoted rule of thumb is something like 3 shots inside 3 yards in 3 seconds. So again, a single stack would work. Of course, your gunfight might not be average--there's no way to know ahead of time.
You can prepare based on what you feel is a reasonable scenario. Let's say you believe a reasonable scenario is two attackers which each require two solid hits for incapacitation. Figure a hit rate of 50% in a scenario like that given the stress and the fact that you'll be shooting a small gun which is harder to manipulate than a larger handgun. That gets a little more complicated but the probabilities of success can be calculated. For the purpose of calculating the probabilities, let's assume you ALWAYS have enough time to fire all your shots, that two solid hits ALWAYS does the trick and that you NEVER accidentally fire more shots at one of the two attackers than is required to get your two solid hits. Let's say your acceptable probability of success is 75%--that would suggest you should have at least 9 rounds on tap. If you want at least a 90% success probability, you'd need 12 rounds in the gun.
Or you could forget all that and just pick a gun you like, or one that you shoot well, or one that you can afford. My guess is that is what most people do.
Except when it's not.
There are a number of ways to look at this.
You can prepare based on the overall stats of needing a gun. If you take that approach then the odds are good you won't ever have to fire a gun in self-defense. So a single stack (or even an unloaded gun) would do the trick.
You can prepare based on the stats of how many shots are fired in an average gunfight. I think the commonly quoted rule of thumb is something like 3 shots inside 3 yards in 3 seconds. So again, a single stack would work. Of course, your gunfight might not be average--there's no way to know ahead of time.
You can prepare based on what you feel is a reasonable scenario. Let's say you believe a reasonable scenario is two attackers which each require two solid hits for incapacitation. Figure a hit rate of 50% in a scenario like that given the stress and the fact that you'll be shooting a small gun which is harder to manipulate than a larger handgun. That gets a little more complicated but the probabilities of success can be calculated. For the purpose of calculating the probabilities, let's assume you ALWAYS have enough time to fire all your shots, that two solid hits ALWAYS does the trick and that you NEVER accidentally fire more shots at one of the two attackers than is required to get your two solid hits. Let's say your acceptable probability of success is 75%--that would suggest you should have at least 9 rounds on tap. If you want at least a 90% success probability, you'd need 12 rounds in the gun.
Or you could forget all that and just pick a gun you like, or one that you shoot well, or one that you can afford. My guess is that is what most people do.
Model12Win
Moderator
IMHO, no. Not in 2017. Too many good and compact double stacks to give up that much capacity.
Onward Allusion
New member
One on one, yeah, a single stack is enough. Two or more? Who knows. I usually carry a G27. It's 9 rounds. Not much more than a G43.
MandolinMan
New member
It's really impossible to provide a definitive answers to your question. To begin, accurate statistics regarding the number of rounds needed in a citizen involved shooting are scarce. I tend to believe that 3 rounds is a reasonable number though.
I carry a single stack 9mm 7+1 capacity and don't feel under-gunned. My reasoning is that I am carrying 2.5 times the average number of rounds needed and am still accurate with it to 25 yards despite it's small size. And it's not a problem to carry a second mag for another 7 rounds giving me 5 times the average number.
Now, I'm well aware that gun fights don't follow rules. Sometime less rounds are needed, sometimes many more. My decision is not based as much upon what would be optimal as much as it is upon what is practical for ME. At the end of the day it's a personal decision. If you can carry a double stack, do it. If it's too large for you and will be left in the safe, you may be better served with a smaller single stack. Just some thoughts.
I carry a single stack 9mm 7+1 capacity and don't feel under-gunned. My reasoning is that I am carrying 2.5 times the average number of rounds needed and am still accurate with it to 25 yards despite it's small size. And it's not a problem to carry a second mag for another 7 rounds giving me 5 times the average number.
Now, I'm well aware that gun fights don't follow rules. Sometime less rounds are needed, sometimes many more. My decision is not based as much upon what would be optimal as much as it is upon what is practical for ME. At the end of the day it's a personal decision. If you can carry a double stack, do it. If it's too large for you and will be left in the safe, you may be better served with a smaller single stack. Just some thoughts.
If it's more likely to be one person attacking, then, Yes. If it's more than one, then Maybe. If its 5 people, probably not.
If you're a person who is less likely to go where crime is high and you don't participate in risky behavior, then yes. If you like to flash your jewelry around, carry wads of cash, and go to the ATM at 10 PM, then probably not.
All joking aside, it is probably acceptable, but I want more options with more ammo. I carry a Glock 19. It's comforting but still relatively comfortable. I have a revolver in the pocket, also.
In the end, it's your decision and what gives you the confidence that you need. That is more important than what we can say. Choosing the proper firearm, the most ideal caliber for your skill/budget and method of carry is a personal decision. To be honest, I probably have as many holsters as I have guns.you never know until you try and train with it.
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If you're a person who is less likely to go where crime is high and you don't participate in risky behavior, then yes. If you like to flash your jewelry around, carry wads of cash, and go to the ATM at 10 PM, then probably not.
All joking aside, it is probably acceptable, but I want more options with more ammo. I carry a Glock 19. It's comforting but still relatively comfortable. I have a revolver in the pocket, also.
In the end, it's your decision and what gives you the confidence that you need. That is more important than what we can say. Choosing the proper firearm, the most ideal caliber for your skill/budget and method of carry is a personal decision. To be honest, I probably have as many holsters as I have guns.you never know until you try and train with it.
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JoeSixpack
New member
+1 with what John said, it's enough unless it ain't.
If you're carrying a 6 or 7 +1 gun It might not be a bad idea to carry a extra mag.
It's really about your own comfort level, and what you can conceal. (as well as local laws)
I know a few people who carry 5 shot 38's and no reload.. that below my own personal comfort level but everyones gotta decided for them selves what gives them peace of mind.
You can't predict what sort of encounter you'll have.. IF it ever happens at all.
If you're carrying a 6 or 7 +1 gun It might not be a bad idea to carry a extra mag.
It's really about your own comfort level, and what you can conceal. (as well as local laws)
I know a few people who carry 5 shot 38's and no reload.. that below my own personal comfort level but everyones gotta decided for them selves what gives them peace of mind.
You can't predict what sort of encounter you'll have.. IF it ever happens at all.
TruthTellers
New member
A single stack is better than nothing.
But, you are limited with ammunition, especially the Glock 43. I would suggest you look at something like the Ruger LC9s or Springfield XDS. Something that has available extended factory mags.
But, you are limited with ammunition, especially the Glock 43. I would suggest you look at something like the Ruger LC9s or Springfield XDS. Something that has available extended factory mags.
Having worked over 200 GSW homicide cases during my career, I believe you will be out of time long before you are out of ammo. No matter what you are carrying.
But people should carry what they are comfortable with. But they should also be proficient with whatever they decide to carry. It is the 1st and maybe 2nd shots that are most important. Not the 9th, 15th or 16th. Folks seldom if ever even get to those.
In retirement, for me, that is a single stack compact 9mm when it is extremely hot and humid, but more often a 45 compact. Regards18DAI
But people should carry what they are comfortable with. But they should also be proficient with whatever they decide to carry. It is the 1st and maybe 2nd shots that are most important. Not the 9th, 15th or 16th. Folks seldom if ever even get to those.
In retirement, for me, that is a single stack compact 9mm when it is extremely hot and humid, but more often a 45 compact. Regards18DAI
Spats McGee
Administrator
As John said, it is until it isn't. I'm a proponent of carrying "as much gun" as is practical, but there's no way to know in advance how much gun will be enough.
I assume that you would carry the pistol IWB.
I've got a Glock 43, its big for pocket carry, but works in cargo type pants/shorts.
For me it is too "small" to merit being carried on belt, may as well go bigger.
For belt carry a Glock 26/27 or 19/23 over the 43. (I started with 26/27 moved up to 19/23 after a few years)
Capacity, I like more bullets: Glock 19/23
That being said, I'm currently carrying a 1911 (45 acp) with 8+1 capacity (and two spare mags)
The 1911 is so slim and concealable carried strong side IWB, for appendix IWB I'd probably go Glock cause shorter slide.
And, contrary to popular opinion... eight 9mm =/= eight 45
I've got a Glock 43, its big for pocket carry, but works in cargo type pants/shorts.
For me it is too "small" to merit being carried on belt, may as well go bigger.
For belt carry a Glock 26/27 or 19/23 over the 43. (I started with 26/27 moved up to 19/23 after a few years)
Capacity, I like more bullets: Glock 19/23
That being said, I'm currently carrying a 1911 (45 acp) with 8+1 capacity (and two spare mags)
The 1911 is so slim and concealable carried strong side IWB, for appendix IWB I'd probably go Glock cause shorter slide.
And, contrary to popular opinion... eight 9mm =/= eight 45
sigarms228
New member
No one knows how much ammo you could potentially need for a SD situation.
Everyone needs to do their own risk assessment and go from there. I am very comfortable with my Walther PPS 7+1 for the vast majority of the time and these days being retired 95 percent of the time I am always within 5 miles from home in what I consider a very low risk area.
If I am going to venture out further or later in the evening I carry an extra magazine or my Glock 19.
I am one of those that find the single stack slim pistols like the Walther PPS significantly more comfortable to CCW IWB and it conceals so well especially for all day comfort that could include a lot of standing and walking.
IMO what a LEO may carry is not a valid comparison to the needs of a non LEO. We are legally permitted to stop the immediate threat and then move to safety. Unlike LEO we do not have an obligation to protect the general public and go on the offensive to find, engage, and stop bad guys.
As always be extremely aware of what is going on around you and get the heck out or take a detour if things are looking questionable. Know the places, areas, and times to avoid.
Everyone needs to do their own risk assessment and go from there. I am very comfortable with my Walther PPS 7+1 for the vast majority of the time and these days being retired 95 percent of the time I am always within 5 miles from home in what I consider a very low risk area.
If I am going to venture out further or later in the evening I carry an extra magazine or my Glock 19.
I am one of those that find the single stack slim pistols like the Walther PPS significantly more comfortable to CCW IWB and it conceals so well especially for all day comfort that could include a lot of standing and walking.
IMO what a LEO may carry is not a valid comparison to the needs of a non LEO. We are legally permitted to stop the immediate threat and then move to safety. Unlike LEO we do not have an obligation to protect the general public and go on the offensive to find, engage, and stop bad guys.
As always be extremely aware of what is going on around you and get the heck out or take a detour if things are looking questionable. Know the places, areas, and times to avoid.
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For me a single stack is enough. I carry an issued Glock 23 on duty, on my own time is a 1911, Kahr K40 or 642. I started my career during the revolver era and didn't feel "undergunned".
Each of us has to access our risk factor and abilities. While a large gun is typically easier to shoot well, it means nothing if it's not carried because of it's size.
With that being said,I believe in carrying the largest, most powerful and accurate sidearm that you can and WILL have on your person at all times. That's why I have three different choices above.
Each of us has to access our risk factor and abilities. While a large gun is typically easier to shoot well, it means nothing if it's not carried because of it's size.
With that being said,I believe in carrying the largest, most powerful and accurate sidearm that you can and WILL have on your person at all times. That's why I have three different choices above.
seeker_two
New member
The first five rounds in a SD shooting are more important than all the rounds after that. That said, I carry either a LC9 or SP-101 with two full reloads.....and I practice as often as I can to make those first five rounds count.
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Any time it is practical to carry a mid size gun like a G19 with double stack magazines that is my preference. But there are times and places where a G43 size gun is the only practical option. A single stack in hand is better than the double stack you left home because it was too big to carry.