I agree with the theory of 3 rd. burst but I agree that the mechanics behind it are complicated. The Russians were working on a neat idea a few years ago. the rifle was set up to fire two shots at 1800 rpm and then drop down to 650 rpm if sustained auto fire was needed. It used some sort of gas/recoil operation hybrid system. So the rate of fire/burst was controled by the operating system not the trigger. this would seem to be a good system.
Is a semiauto rifle a disadvantage in a firefight?
- Thread starter Nightcrawler
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Nightcrawler
New member
That rifle is the Izhmash AN-94. It has a recoiling barrel system too, I believe, and on the Iszhmash site (yes, they have a website) they say you can sustain full auto fire with no loss of accuracy.
http://www.izhmash.ru/eng/product/nikon.shtml
http://www.izhmash.ru/eng/product/nikon.shtml
I think we should determine what is full auto fire. It is not slamming a 20-30 round magazine into the well and pulling and holding the trigger until empty. This is a waste of ammo and your hit probability will go down.
Full auto fire is short controlled bursts (4-5 rounds) and with this type of firing you can engage single and especially area targets out to 150 meters maybe further but this is as far as I’ve engaged targets with results. Since you have muzzle climb you aim lower on your target with your rounds working upward.
Turk
Full auto fire is short controlled bursts (4-5 rounds) and with this type of firing you can engage single and especially area targets out to 150 meters maybe further but this is as far as I’ve engaged targets with results. Since you have muzzle climb you aim lower on your target with your rounds working upward.
Turk
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Marko Kloos
Inactive
Not to be an annoying know-it-all or anything, but I'll shoot any rifle semi-auto against someone with the same rifle in the full-auto version, at 100-150 yards, using the silhouette military targets or even regular "bullseye" targets. I guarantee you that I will have a higher hit count than the full-auto operator, even if he sticks to the short burst doctrine. I recognize the value of full-auto burst fire for CQB, but at anything past 25-50 yards it's simply filling the air with lead and noise. Your first shot might connect at that range, but the subsequent ones are just going to deplete your ammo supply.
Now, a SAW or GPMG is a different story, but we're talking infantry rifle here, right?
Also, do all you groundpounders remember how fast a twenty- or thirty-round mag tends to go when shooting full-auto bursts, especially in the excitement of live fire or one of those MILES cowboy-and-indians blastfests?
Now, a SAW or GPMG is a different story, but we're talking infantry rifle here, right?
Also, do all you groundpounders remember how fast a twenty- or thirty-round mag tends to go when shooting full-auto bursts, especially in the excitement of live fire or one of those MILES cowboy-and-indians blastfests?
M249 SAW/240 Golf
To be effective on the battle field as a squad or platoon, you are gonna need some automatic rifles. The automatic rifleman have to lay down suppressing fire or just keep their guns on the most likely avenues of approach. So the rest of the squad or platoon can flank the enemy and destroy them. Other wise you could have a hell of a time holding back a large advancing force.
To be effective on the battle field as a squad or platoon, you are gonna need some automatic rifles. The automatic rifleman have to lay down suppressing fire or just keep their guns on the most likely avenues of approach. So the rest of the squad or platoon can flank the enemy and destroy them. Other wise you could have a hell of a time holding back a large advancing force.
Nightcrawler
New member
Full Auto in CQB
Not always used. I saw a special on the discovery channel where they were showing SEAL training for CQB. They had MP5 Navy models (safe-semi-auto trigger group, retractable stock).
when the SEAL team would enter a room in the training house, they'd have their weapons on semi. Each man would cover a certain segment of the room with his weaon, and they'd snap off rounds into the targets.
Spraying lead into a small room can be dangerous, especially if there are friendlies, hostages, or noncombatants you might not know about.
Not always used. I saw a special on the discovery channel where they were showing SEAL training for CQB. They had MP5 Navy models (safe-semi-auto trigger group, retractable stock).
when the SEAL team would enter a room in the training house, they'd have their weapons on semi. Each man would cover a certain segment of the room with his weaon, and they'd snap off rounds into the targets.
Spraying lead into a small room can be dangerous, especially if there are friendlies, hostages, or noncombatants you might not know about.
lendringser
Your post.
Not to be an annoying know-it-all or anything, but I'll shoot any rifle semi-auto against someone with the same rifle in the full-auto version, at 100-150 yards, using the silhouette military targets or even regular "bullseye" targets. I guarantee you that I will have a higher hit count than the full-auto operator, even if he sticks to the short burst doctrine. I recognize the value of full-auto burst fire for CQB, but at anything past 25-50 yards it's simply filling the air with lead and noise. Your first shot might connect at that range, but the subsequent ones are just going to deplete your ammo supply.
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I believe you would have a higher hit count shooting at paper targets. But one thing seperates your senerio from a real world firefight you don't always have a clear target or the time to take multiple aimed shots upon a target in a firefight. People are shooting at you and the game is real. Shooting at a muzzle flash I'll much prefer to put a couple short controled bursts into the area. The M-16A1 is capable of this and is even better if a bipod is used.
Something I learned many years ago was as good as infantry training gets nothing compares to the sights, sounds and smell of a eye ball to eye ball firefight.
Turk
Your post.
Not to be an annoying know-it-all or anything, but I'll shoot any rifle semi-auto against someone with the same rifle in the full-auto version, at 100-150 yards, using the silhouette military targets or even regular "bullseye" targets. I guarantee you that I will have a higher hit count than the full-auto operator, even if he sticks to the short burst doctrine. I recognize the value of full-auto burst fire for CQB, but at anything past 25-50 yards it's simply filling the air with lead and noise. Your first shot might connect at that range, but the subsequent ones are just going to deplete your ammo supply.
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I believe you would have a higher hit count shooting at paper targets. But one thing seperates your senerio from a real world firefight you don't always have a clear target or the time to take multiple aimed shots upon a target in a firefight. People are shooting at you and the game is real. Shooting at a muzzle flash I'll much prefer to put a couple short controled bursts into the area. The M-16A1 is capable of this and is even better if a bipod is used.
Something I learned many years ago was as good as infantry training gets nothing compares to the sights, sounds and smell of a eye ball to eye ball firefight.
Turk