Is a Kilimanjaro Rifle worth the $$?

F

FLChinook

New member
Kilimanjaro makes custom rifles to fit an individual (supposedly) on any action, barrel, trigger, etc with really, really, really pretty wood. Prices start around $15k

Cooper (putting aside the jerky founder who's no longer with the company) makes a very nice gun with a proof target assuring 0.75 moa (magnum) at about $3.5k

Assuming you can find a used Kilimanjaro for even as low as $5k (1/3rd new cost), would it be $1500 better than the new Cooper?

Use will be mostly range with an annual long-range elk hunt...

Thanks
 
No


Not to me, anyway. If they've sold one of them, at least one person thinks its worth it, though .

But the only question to answer is if its worth it to you. You know the only one who can answer that, don't you ?



I've got some rifles, (but more double shotguns), with really pretty wood and blued finish. I actually find them to be a bit of a pain many times. Often worrying about messing them up, rather than just hunting. If they are messed up, many good gunsmiths have very long waiting list to have them worked on. (And these guns sure didn't cost $15k.)
I guess I appreciate the Alaska locals attitude now. Stainless & synthetic can be very good in a hard use hunting rifle.
I have rifles that will take elk at long range quite easily. They don't cost $15k, $5K, or $3500 - - - but Mr. Bull elk has never noticed.
But, life is short and if you want any particular toy and can afford it, why not ? Its your dollar and your enjoyment that matters.

As with anything - YMMV, of course.
 
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I'd have to say no as well. 15K!!??! That's nearly 3 times the price of a Surgeon Rifle, a tried and true highly accurate long range gun.

But...if a Kilimanjaro is what you have your heart set on then go for it.


As for Cooper, I've always liked the look of their guns. However, after all that non-sense and forcing Dan Cooper to step down; I'll never do business with them. Demonizing a pro-gun, pro-2a guy just because some of his views may be different than other peoples is not helping our cause at all!
 
Not to me. But if someone has the money and wants to invest it in a high end gun I can appreciate the workmanship required to build one. I enjoy looking at a pretty piece of wood, but stopped hunting with them in 1983. Seen too many of them fail to deliver.

And the truth is it won't kill anything any deader than a $350 budget bolt rifle. And any increases in accuracy would be measured in the .00's. But we all buy the guns we can afford and limit them to prices where the best value is to us.

My tastes run toward much more practical SS/Synthetic guns with Kimbers being a favorite. I have 3 SS Winchesters set in McMillan stocks. I don't have $1,000 invested in any one of them. They all shoot .75" or better. The custom McMillans are ordered to your specs, the Winchester and Kimbers are already built just the way I want them.

And many folks will say I have too much in them. My $350 Ruger American is just as accurate. But I like the others better, can afford them and use them.
 
Not for me, I don't suffer from "logo ego". I seriously doubt a $15K rifle will provide me better service than any one of several good rifles I already have.
 
Sorry if I didn't state my question properly. I also, would never pay $15k for a rifle; regardless of its pedigree. I was just wondering if paying $5k for a rifle that started out life at $15k would be better than paying $3.5k for a Cooper.

I was not familiar with Surgeon Rifles. I just looked at their site and, while they may be the best long-range shooters made, they are not my cup of tea.

I agree that wood stocks get dented and marred with use but to me, those are all marks that add to the interest of the gun. So long as the gun continues to give me 5 shots that touch at 100 yards.

I'm currently using a Weatherby Accumark 300 Win Mag. It shoots well but nothing like 0.75 moa. I'm looking for something distinctive, accurate, with a nice piece of walnut; at a good price.
 
What about Dakota? Also some very fine firearms. Or..taking a highly accurate gun you've always liked and having some custom work ( including fine stock) put on it?

I can understand Surgeons not being ones 'cup o tea.' My grandfather said that looking at a synthetic stock on a fine rifle is like having to have breakfast across the table from an ugly woman. I have a few different rifles for my most used, practical rifles, I can't see using anything but a synthetic stock (so many benefits!). Like on my rem700, it's synthetic stocked (NOT a pretty rifle) and I've yet to shoot ANY ammo I've tried into more than an inch. But my Ruger no1 in 7mm mag, I struggle to get handloads that will group sub-MOA, and I would really like to put an exhibition grade piece of fiddle back maple or feathered walnut on it (instead of the cheap walnut it has).

I guess it's all in what you're looking for.
 
There is an old expression among the very rich, "If you have to ask the price, then you can not afford it."

Basically, the cost or price does not play a part in it's WORTH. The value is in the name and privilege of owning one.

Jim
 
I have nothing but good to say about Surgeon rifles since the gentleman who operates that company helped me with some adaptive accessories for my blind Son's rifle.
I'm a more utilitarian rifle user who simply won't put that kind of money into a tool. I have some "nice" rifles that haven't been outside for decades and some that are still NIB but I can't say those are "better" than the ones with scars and dings from being carried nearly full time.
"The value is in the name and privilege of owning one."
Ah, the aforementioned "logo ego".
 
Oh, like anything else, it's worth it if it appeals to you and you can afford it.

But for me, no of course not (can't afford it).

I don't see how they are THAT much nicer than, for example, this sub-$5K rifle:
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=415695904


Here's some Kilis:
http://www.gunbroker.com/All/BI.aspx?Keywords=kilimanjaro

Well, THIS one is stunningly beautiful and possibly worth it - real art:
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=415907478
...albeit in a terribly undesirable chambering (to me).
 
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I don't see how they are THAT much nicer than, for example, this sub-$5K rifle:
Click to expand...

OK, please remit to me immediately the cost of a new keyboard. I just slobbered pretty much over this one. That is some seriously nice wood...

Note however:

1. The auction on Nosler M48 is not over and there are lots of bidders
2. Is the 280 AI a reasonable change to make from my 300 Win Mag for elk...?
 
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I don't see anything on there worth 17k (base price listed on their site). if I had that much money to spend on a gun, I'd get myself a surgeon rifle or something in that class, a nightforce scope, then if I really needed a pretty stock, I'd get a custom exhibitiion grade stock and probably finish up with $4k-5k in my pocket
 
I've long thought that Cooper rifles were very beautiful but far too expensive. I'd never dare shoot the thing. A rifle that's 5x more money? Not a chance. That same rifle, used, at 50% more? Not a chance.

Pretty ain't worth that much money. I can build my own that's exactly what I want and more than pretty enough for $12-$1500.
 
That is some seriously nice wood...
Click to expand...

No lie - love it. Up to $2k and reserve still not met. If I had the money, I'd go to about $2,600 on that Nosler. And yes, I'd hunt with it - but not until I hit my 60s. Yes, I should think that .280 AI is very good for elk, with a 140-160 premium bullet (bonded or partitioned). .280 AI is just almost equal to 7mm RSAUM, and a tad bit under 7mm WSM and 7mm Rem mag.

But no - past $5K, like the Kilimanjaros, with wood that nice, I ain't hunting with it - which means I ain't buying it. Guns are for using.
 
I'd go to about $2,600 on that Nosler.
Click to expand...

I'm kind of like the kid standing outside the candy store admiring the goodies on the other side of the glass. I don't know much about what goes into them but I do know what I like!

I don't know a lot about the Nosler M48 but there's a new Legacy 300 Win Mag on Gunbroker that has no bids at $2k and you can buy it now for $2200. Clearly, the walnut on the 300 is not so attractive. But did Nosler have different prices for different grades of walnut? What am I missing??
 
Mmmm, Rifle pornography. I think the Kilimanjarno rifles are gorgeous. I do own a Cooper and have a lot of fun with it. All in the eye of the beholder I guess, but if you have the money, why shoot an ugly rifle? Is a Mercedes worth it? Not to me. Doesn't mean I cant watch one drive by. I like to go look at the pictures on the Holland and Holland site too.
 
I for one would love to have a Kilimanjaro rifle. Let me paint a different picture for you.

Hunting Africa:
$10000 10 day hunt
$10000 misc fees and expenses
$3000 in clothes and supplies for the trip
$3000 in airfare
$3500 in binoculars (2 pair plains and brush)

$25,000 - $50,000 in lost income taking 10 days off

So, this hunter picks out a rifle. The hunter knows money, knows beauty(appearance). . .the rifle maker knows that he has to provide a trouble free, without a doubt, rifle which in the case of dangerous game could mean life and death. An action where the bolt drags going into the lugs won't do. Will you miss the chance of a lifetime?

We've all seen issues on production and custom rifles. . .barrel loose, chamber rough, bolt needs broken in to run smooth, sights loose, sear releases when rifle is dropped. On all other guns, we send these back to be made right. On this gun, none of this is OK. Too much on the line.

Other rifles:
Westley Richards

Holland and Holland

American Hunting Rifles
I actually spoke with this guy at the NRA show. He had my dream rifle. A 458 Lott; quarter rib sights; barrel band front sight; short barrel; beautiful bluing; incredible wood. . .and the action. I cannot describe how well the action operated. Sure, it was a Montana Rifle Company African size action, but it was obviously massaged to be perfect. According to the company, with that wood, it was a $10000 rifle, but $5000 that day lightly used.

So while we are here arguing about the value of a $15,000 rifle, remember that in the buyers life, it will likely be left with the PH or guide as a tip for a fabulous hunt.

Like so many of you, I really enjoy a great shooting rifle, long range, standard hunting, . . .rifles I will shoot a lot a wring great accuracy from.

Still, someday, with or without the Africa trip, I will buy a 458 Lott DGR in a walnut stock ready to knock the crap out of my shoulder!

The secret is I'm wanting the 458 Lott because it is a real DGR, but it can be reloaded for a reasonable cost vs a larger african round like a 505 Gibbs or a 425 Westley Richards which make 50 BMG long range loads look economical.

AHR.jpg


If I were a more refined individual, I might be picking this gem up:
H&H%20500465%20Raj%20073.jpg

for only $120k. Likely this is a steal for a nice H&H.
 
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Still, someday, with or without the Africa trip, I will buy a 458 Lott DGR in a walnut stock ready to knock the crap out of my shoulder!
Click to expand...

My first elk rifle was a Remington 700 Classic in .338 Win Mag. I had spent countless hours pouring over the different options and the 338 was the clear winner. Then I took it to the range. It hurt. It hurt bad!! Bottom line, no matter how great the cartridge, if you can't bear to shoot it, it's no good. I can't even imagine firing a 458 Lott... Full disclosure, I've had 4 rotator cuff surgeries which is 3 more than any one person should have to endure. I'm pretty protective of my shoulders now... :-)

My favorite rifle at the range is my 257 Weatherby. It has a gentle recoil, not too much noise, and it's amazingly accurate. In fact, the more I think about it, the more I like the 280 AI, for much the same reasons...

PS. That H&H double is a thing of beauty!! But I'd have to invent a new headphone that Apple wanted to buy before I could do any more than dream...
 
I was just wondering if paying $5k for a rifle that started out life at $15k would be better than paying $3.5k for a Cooper.
Click to expand...

It depends on what condition the Kilimanjaro is in. If i had the money to burn and it was in near mint condition, i might go for it. If it looks a bit beat up, i'd probably just go for the cooper.
 
FLChinook

You mean this one:
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=414475682

It's all about the wood - the wood on that one cannot hold a candle to the other one, in beauty - not to mention the endcaps at front and grip.

Oddly enough, I think the wood Coopers are overpriced - the wood isn't all that great, relative to the price premium over other stocks. But the Jackson Hunter & Phoenix composite stock ones, on the other hand, are appealing to me at their price point (a lot less than the wood ones). Obama lover or not, Cooper makes some nice rifles.
 
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