armoredman
New member
I carry 9mm and 38 Special. I think I can hit what I aim at with them. I believe the rounds I use will do the job. I also think if I knew I was going into a gunfight I would take my rifle. 
Is 9mm adequate
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Streetprowler
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First post! Whoo-hoo!
I have carried a 9mm Kel-Tek and never felt "Under-gunned." I think that the caliber has proven itself as a viable defense cartridge. Sure, I would rather have a .357 or a .45, but as I wrote above: I never felt under-gunned.
Hello, all! This is my inaugural post and I am looking forward to many more.
~SP
I have carried a 9mm Kel-Tek and never felt "Under-gunned." I think that the caliber has proven itself as a viable defense cartridge. Sure, I would rather have a .357 or a .45, but as I wrote above: I never felt under-gunned.
Hello, all! This is my inaugural post and I am looking forward to many more.
~SP
Streetprowler,
Welcome aboard.
A while back I had a chance to compare 9mm with .357 and was surprised at how little was the difference. Yes, there was a difference but the 9mm will serve the purpose of self defense.
The only thing bad about the experiment was that the 9mm was a Glock.
Welcome aboard.
A while back I had a chance to compare 9mm with .357 and was surprised at how little was the difference. Yes, there was a difference but the 9mm will serve the purpose of self defense.
The only thing bad about the experiment was that the 9mm was a Glock.
moose_nukelz
New member
Since I am probably going to empty the magazine in a SD/HD situation, here is some math:
M&P in 9mm = 18 rounds of 124 grain JHP's (18*124 = 2232 grains)
1911 in 45acp = 8 rounds of 230 grain JHP's (8*230 = 1840 grains)
I will take death by volume
M&P in 9mm = 18 rounds of 124 grain JHP's (18*124 = 2232 grains)
1911 in 45acp = 8 rounds of 230 grain JHP's (8*230 = 1840 grains)
I will take death by volume
You are comparing two different platforms. Compare apples to apples.
M&P 45 = 10+1 = 11*230 grains = 2530 grains
My 1911s are also 8+1, but I choose higher capacity designs for home defense (FNP45 16 rounds & XD45 14 rounds).
When I start carrying, I will probably switch between my M&P 9c and S&W 637 J frame Airweight in .38spl+P. I don't want to lug around my service size .45s.
I think part of the answer has to do with defensive vs offensive situations.
Most SD situations end with few shots fired. The purpose of SD is to stop the threat. Usually the BG's quit the fight when they find they are up against an armed opponent. On the other hand a Police Officer will have offensive situations where they must pursue and bring the fight to the BG. This usually means more shots fired.
Nothing worse than running out of ammo in a gun fight. So for offensive situations I think capacity king. That's were high capacity 9mm's come in real handy.
I do have 9mm but my daily carry is a G36 .45ACP. I have confidence in both.
Most SD situations end with few shots fired. The purpose of SD is to stop the threat. Usually the BG's quit the fight when they find they are up against an armed opponent. On the other hand a Police Officer will have offensive situations where they must pursue and bring the fight to the BG. This usually means more shots fired.
Nothing worse than running out of ammo in a gun fight. So for offensive situations I think capacity king. That's were high capacity 9mm's come in real handy.
I do have 9mm but my daily carry is a G36 .45ACP. I have confidence in both.
moose_nukelz
New member
Ok, +6 arredondo mag extension and one in the pipe with my M&P 9mm with 147 grain puts me at 3528 grains. Even with the 14 round mag and one in the pipe with 230 grain you are "only" getting 3450 grains out of an M&P 45. I still wouldn't want to be on the receiving end of either one but the math shows you get more lead with the 9mm.
Someone did a comparison with a 9mm S&W compact and a snubbie 357 mag many years ago. The 357mag made people at the firing line step back in awe with it's muzzle report (plex glass windows shaking,) whereas the 9mm sounded like a mouse gun. The guy doing the test measured velocity at about ten feet and the 9mm was faster then the 357 mag. The people present could not believe it. The bullet weight was about the same. Can't remember the exact numbers but it was something like a 124 grain 9mm fired from a 6906 12 shot compared to a 2inch barrel 357 mag with 125 grain bullets. The 9mm was significantly higher velocity.
Officer Jared Reston took a .45 point blank to the chin and was able to continue the fight, and killed his attacker Joel Abner.
In that case the bullet broke his jaw and went downward exiting his neck. I know it's anecdotal, but there is an example of the many many variables involved in a shooting.
It's not just caliber, or bullet design, sometimes it's not shot placement per se - because I think if you can put a bullet in someone's chin - that's decent shot placement.
But in this case it may have depended on the angle - instead of the bullet path being horizontal - it was probably angling downward to begin with because Abner shot Reston while they were grappling.
In that case the bullet broke his jaw and went downward exiting his neck. I know it's anecdotal, but there is an example of the many many variables involved in a shooting.
It's not just caliber, or bullet design, sometimes it's not shot placement per se - because I think if you can put a bullet in someone's chin - that's decent shot placement.
But in this case it may have depended on the angle - instead of the bullet path being horizontal - it was probably angling downward to begin with because Abner shot Reston while they were grappling.
Sounds like that was a glancing shot. Had it been straight on, he'd be dead. That said, the .45 is not a death ray.
It's all about averages. On average, a bigger bullet/heavier bullet in the same location is going to cause more damage than a lighter one. This assumes their velocities are in the same ballpark. Obviously, a 180 grain 30-06 rifle round will do more damage than a 230 grain .45acp.
It's all about averages. On average, a bigger bullet/heavier bullet in the same location is going to cause more damage than a lighter one. This assumes their velocities are in the same ballpark. Obviously, a 180 grain 30-06 rifle round will do more damage than a 230 grain .45acp.
The .380 auto thing... the hype (anti-hype ?) would make you think that it's only going to save your life by:
1) Causing the BG to stop the agression due to pain
2) Flee in terror just by virtue of being shot at and hearing a firearm go off
Not too long ago a female Marine was being stalked by her Marine ex. She purchased a 380 a few days vefore he broke into her apartment. She shot him a few times with the 380 - and he stopped the agression because he died.
1) Causing the BG to stop the agression due to pain
2) Flee in terror just by virtue of being shot at and hearing a firearm go off
Not too long ago a female Marine was being stalked by her Marine ex. She purchased a 380 a few days vefore he broke into her apartment. She shot him a few times with the 380 - and he stopped the agression because he died.
Kimbertron
New member
People have died from a .22LR, people have died by a .50 BMG. People have also survived being shot by a .45 ACP/9mm and countless other rounds. I guess the what im trying to say is, bullets hurt, carry what your are comfortable with. Its all a balance of power/capacity/size, find what balance feels comfortable and go with it. Hope i haven't over simplified things lol.
Modern defensive loads of 9mm, .40 S&W, and 45 ACP virtually perform exactly the same sans some diameter differences in the hundredth's decimal place. Now, they do all have differences in power with other loads but for all intents and purposes of defensive ammunition, there is really no difference. 38 Special is even a great round still.
Anyone who says 9mm isn't enough for self defense is just an idiot.
Anyone who says 9mm isn't enough for self defense is just an idiot.
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