Is 185gr +P in .45 a wise choice

M

Mike H

New member
I have a particular liking for compacts with 4 inch or sub 4 inch barrels.

One that has caught my eye particularly is the USP compact, but 230 grain seems like a lot of bullet for a short barrel.

I just wondered what the feeling was on the 185 grain +P rounds that are out there. Sounds like a real combination to me, but is shallow penetration an issue ?

Anyone use them.

Regards,

Mike H
 
I like heavy .45s but found that shooting 230gr hurts my hand when using my alloy framed Kimber Ultra CDP (3" officers) Dropped down to 185gr Golden Sabers and my hand feels much better, no more flinch. Still prefer 230gr, but have no fear stoking my .45s with this wt. load.

I don't believe in the 165gr. loads though.
 
I prefer 230 grain loads, but in a short barreled gun, one could make a case for 185 g.

Now as for +P, I wouldnt do it, you dont need it, and its just gonna beat you and the gun up.
 
I use the 185 gr. +p Corbons when I carry my SS Para Ordnance P-12 Limited. I think these are a good choice for the short barrel .45's
 
I'm sure it will work...

But I would stick with 230gr, or maybe 200 +P in a compact. The 45 is a slower bullet in general, so I would go with the higher momentum of the heavier bullet over the incressed velocity and energy of the lighter bullet.

Just me tho, and I doubt you will ever get a good answer to your question. Any one who claims to really know probably hasnt done enough research on the subject.

In the end, shoot both. In a quality +P round (hydroshock, corbon, Rem Golden Saber) your terminal balistics are likely to be pretty darn close. Lets face it, .45cal is always going to not be 9mm, no matter what size bullet is in it.

JT

as usual, IMHO, FWIW, YMMV, and all that...
 
Good choice in rounds

:) I also have a USP Compact .45, and I carry the Corbon 185gr +p. I think you will find that the added velocity behind the lighter bullet will alleviate your concerns about under penetration, as the 230gr will probably have the problem well before the Corbon. I also find that the H&K handles the +P loads very well, and is comfortable to fire. Also, check out the below link, I bought some of this ammo, and want to test fire some before carrying it. The ballistics are impressive. My understanding is that they are using a synthetic metal blend bullet, very lightweight (90gr), very little resistance as it travels down the barrel, allowing high velocity without more powder behind it (2400fps), and can penetrate just about everything including light body armour. When the bullet hits water based objects (the human body), it actually fragnments, causing the target to absorb all the energy, and will not overpenetrate, reducing liability in hitting something behind the target. See what you think.

http://www.rbcd.net/
 
I use 185s in my Officers Model for coyote calling. The few I shot were blown off their feet and couldn't get up even though they were still alive, they were sort of paralyzed. I realize that this doesn't nessessarily mean much for anything other than coyotes but I was impressed. This is my carry gun and for carry, I load it with 230s.
 
In a short-barreled .45 the heavy rounds work the best. there isn't enough velocity loss to hurt the effectiveness that much. The +Ps are a bad idea as the slower burning powder mostly gets blown out the end of the barrel, creating a nice fireball. The heavy bullets are usually propelled by fast powder and reach max velocity faster.
 
Mike H,

45ACP in 230 gr is the choice for suppressed shooting! Its subsonic speed is not conducive to expansion but with .45” diameter you do make a serious hole without expansion!

For un-suppressed shooting, 185gr JHP in 45ACP is the hot ticket. It is more powerful than 230 gr ammo, has better potential for expansion and is less likely to over-penetrate.

I would never carry 230 gr 45ACP ammo for CCW. It is famous for penetrating multiple targets and only suited to the battlefield. For CCW, you are endangering innocents when your shot exits your target. For self defense, over-penetration should be
avoided for moral reasons.

230gr in 45 ACP is inferior to 185gr JHP ammo in all respects for defensive use.

Good luck!

Regards,
George
In sunny Arizona

P.S. It puzzles me why so many people gravitate to the heaviest bullet in a caliber. They may think 230 gr is the most powerful in 45ACP? Actually, 230gr is less powerful than full power 185gr bullets and the subsonic 230gr bullet has low potential for expansion.
 
FWIW

The 125 grain JHP .357 has been the #1 SD round for years.

Seems like either the 185 or 230 should be "adequate", even taking into account the velocity difference.

In one of the handgun rags about a year ago there was an article on actual police shootings broken down by caliber/weight. Really wish I had kept it, but IIRC the .357/125 was around the range of 97% 1 shot stops, the 45/185 was maybe 94-95% and the 230/45 was maybe 93%. The 40 was new enough that they didn't have sufficient data.
 
I like the 200gr+P Gold dot JHP loaded by Pro Load myself, But the 185gr should get it done nicely as well. I am not intersted in the 165gr loadings, if I want to use a middle weight bullet 155-165gr I would go to a .40 caliber. But of course this is just IMHO G.R.
 
In my HK UPS45 Compact I carry 185 gr +P rounds. Since I live in NJ where non-LEO's cannot carry HP's, I had my dealer special order Winchester 185 gr +P truncated FMJ rounds. They are very controllable and accurate. I believe that the lighter rounds are ideal for short barreled pistols.

I really am not that concerned with over pentration. First off, of the many NYC and NJ police shooting cases I've looked at, the vast majority of innocent bystanders were hit by clear misses - not overpenetration, not ricochets.

2 examples of misses- a college student in New Brunswick was shot in the head by NBPD when they fired at a bad guy and missed. A pickup truck driver on Rt. 22 EB in Mountainside was struck in the forehead by shots fired by police 1/2 mile away. Both survived and collected millions from the PD's. There are more I could cite.

Secondly, Mas Ayoob and I have talked about this at length. He feels that a defense I could raise is that "the devil made me do it", meaning that I complied with state law and that OP resulted from my compliance with the laws passed by the legislature. Whether this defense would be successful is academic at this time.

That said, there is very little information about lawsuits, etc., resulting from over penetration woundings. Yes, I've heard of maybe a half dozen throughout the entire USA but if there were more, I'd be surprised. If someone has a list, I'd be interested in seeing it.
 
Which ever load your gun does the best with is the load to use in that gun. I prefer +P 185 Golden Sabres in my Combat Commander because they do very well in that gun.
 
Can't use them, at least not in my Taurus PT145. Taurus recommends against using +P loads. I use standard pressure 230gr Rem GS. If you gun is +P rated, then by all means, use them!!:)
 
In my Combat Commander I always prefered 230 grain HP's. If they expand, great, if they don't, they are still .45 inch in diameter. When I picked up a Kimber Ultra CDP I quickly learned that the 230 grain full loads were just too hard to control. Hard on the hand, but more importantly, too hard to control for a quick second shot. After trying both 200 grain and 185 grain I decided that this particular gun did best with the 185 grain. (The 200 grains wouldn't shoot to point of aim on the fixed sights at any range I expected to use).
 
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