Irresponsible Gun Owners - What Can We Do?

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MustangSally

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Although I hate to admit that the opposition has a point, I do believe that there are many gun owners out there who aren't the safest or most responsible. Case in point... our neighbor has a .22 rifle and a .44 revolver. He also has two little kids. The revolver sits on a closet shelf. (Don't know whether it's loaded or not.) The rifle sits on top of his workbench (leaning up against the wall) in his garage.

My husband and I have lectured this neighbor (and his wife) about the safe storage of firearms and the danger to his kids ad infinitum. My husband even went as far as buying a small bedside gun vault for him. We don't know whether he's using the gun vault for the revolver, but my husband told me that the rifle is still in the same place. How does he know this? One recent morning... on his way to work... my husband noted the neighbor's garage door open... the light on... and the gun still on the workbench and propped against the wall. He considered taking it just to prove a point; but other than ruin neighborly relations, I doubt this will have any effect.

I must believe that a large majority of gun owners are like this. They get a firearm for 'protection' and haven't a clue how to store or use it. (It's my understanding that this neighbor hasn't even been to the range.)

THIS is the real challenge for us. Getting through to these thick, know-it-all individuals. Anybody have any similar experiences? Anbody care to share how they might approach a similar situation? Anybody know how we can get through to the umpteen other irresponsible gun owners out there?

Those kids are so cute.... I'd sure hate to see anything happen to them.
 
Wouldn't do anything. I would ask if they are comfortable with the gun being quite so easy to steal or "borrow" for kids and strangers alike. Past that, there isn't much you can do. BTW, is that free-standing rifle even operable?
 
We've already asked them if they're comfortable with the dangers to their little ones, but 'Mr. Macho' (whose dad was a LEO) thinks he knows best. And as for whether the rifle is functional, my husband indicated that it is.
 
There's only so much you can do. I understand the concern but also fear that any official action you can take would end up doing far more damage than you bargained for (see MA, NJ precedents).

Also, while I can see the theft danger, I also note that up in North Minnesota guns are often stored where kids can get at them (though always unloaded) and kids know well enough to stay clear.
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Oleg "cornered rat" Volk (JPFO,NRA)

http://dd-b.net/RKBA

[This message has been edited by Oleg Volk (edited March 13, 2000).]
 
Persoal accountability they are the only ones who should say what goes on in their house. You don't have to go there. I would hate for anything to happen to the kids as well but I know I can't change the world. I can do something about my little cornor.
 
Sally,

I share your concern about unsafe gun
handling.
At a gunshow this past weekend,the
MAJORITY of people who were carrying
handguns had their finger on the trigger.

I stopped counting the number of times
I was "swept" by a gun muzzle.

Yes, the firearms are tied at the door,
and yes, they are checked to make certain
they are empty. But I was taught to treat
every gun as if it was loaded.

Like all of you, I value my right to own
use firearms. Like all of you, I worry
about the erosion of those rights.

All it would take is for someone with a
video camera and an agenda to get some
footage of the unsafe practices that
abound at these shows, air it publically,
and the antis could have a field day with
an effort to close the shows for "safety"
reasons..

You know what? If things don't improve,
I just might support their effort.

Not sure I mean that last statement, but
I tend to get a little sore when we,at
times, are our own worst enemy.
 
Miss Sally,

Mind your own business.

PS

JFYI your handle is same handle that a certain pornograhic film actress uses.
 
6ForSure.... I have minded my own business, but I couldn't live with myself if I didn't make any attempt to educate folks like my neighbors (especially since I care about what happens to them).

By the way, my handle is in reference to a Wilson Pickett tune (and my ownership of a classic Mustang). No relation to any porn star and wouldn't know what monikers they might go by.
 
Sally turn this guy into the cops. It's people like this who disgust me. Tell them he is endangering the welfare of his kids and any others in the neighborhood. This is one guy who deffinately should'nt own a gun. It's time for us responsible people to do something before the bad apples ruin it for good for everyone else.
 
Sally,
You might want to take the fear of getting your a$$ sued off approach.
The gun companies aren't the only ones getting sued by by this new breed of ambulance chasers. There's even a lawyer down here in the New Orleans area who has been advertising in the local newspaper lately that he handles Personal "Firearms Liability Suits" for anyone injured by negligent firearm use. Private citizens are getting hauled into court and it probably wouldn't take a great deal of research to find a few horror stories of average folks who wound up losing everything they own because they were careless.
The thought of every paycheck you get from now till the end of time going to someone else can be pretty scary!
 
MustangSally,

Is there any chance you might get this 'neighbor' to the local indoor/outdoor range?
Definitely try to keep the lines of communication open.
We need to educate the uninformed/misinformed wherever, and whoever, they are, more so when they live next door.
The man needs help. And he obviously doesn't have a clue.
Don't give up.
Good luck and keep us posted...

------------------
...defend the 2nd., it protects us all.
No fate but what we make...

[This message has been edited by foxfire (edited March 13, 2000).]
 
Report the sucker to child welfare. Better a ticked off neighbor than a dead kid. Your have gone further than many trying with this mutt. My two cents worth. :( :mad:
 
I'm going to catch some flak for this but so be it.
Granted the man is an idiot for leaving the gun unattended in the garage. But to condem him for having a gun in the house with children that isn't under lock and key is extreme. Are we here on this board begining to buy into the media rhetoric?
Think for a moment how many of you grew up with (loaded) guns in the house. I know I certainly did, my son did and my grandchildren are. This coutry has had guns in homes since they were all loaded from the front. Guns were in night stands, hanging proudly on the wall, in gun cabinets with no locks. They were leaning in closets and sitting on shelves. They hung over dooors and many a sock drawer sported one. Until guns became a political tool and the darling of the liberal media it was not looked down upon. How many of you would have wanted this man thrown in jail or had child welfare called on him 20 years ago, 30 years ago or 40? The guns haven't changed. They haven't became more dangeruos. They didn't become evil. They haven't, in that time, started jumping up on their own and placing themselves in kids hands. People taught their children responsiblity. They weren't killing themselves or each other simply because there were guns in the house. If they were most of us wouldn't be here today. Our ancesters would have all killed themselves off before becoming old enough to procreate.
I am not trying to defend this man. Based on the fact that he left the rifle unattended would indicate he is not responsble. However, consider that we are all guilty of something that someone would find irresponsible. To many the mere fact they we own guns makes us irresponsible and a danger to society. To many the fact alone that we have kids and guns make us bad parents.
Am I the only one starting to fell realy old here. I remember a time when it was not considered dangerous and/or irresponsbile to have kids and guns in the same house. Some of the post on this thread make me feel like I've accidently pointed my browser to the Rosie O forum instead of TFL!

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Gunslinger

We live in a time in which attitudes and deeds once respected as courageous and honorable are now scorned as being antiquated and subversive.
 
Is it a freedom issue or one of liability? Does your neighbor have the right to be a dumbass?

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Better days to be,

Ed
 
Thanks for all of the input so far!

GunSlinger, no, I don't think that you're off base. There's nothing wrong with having firearms in the same home as kids, and I certainly don't want to suggest that there is. (Well... with the exception of homes with kids like Kip Kinkel.) I would just like to see folks exercise a little common sense where their kids are concerned.
 
MustangSally, You've just answered your own question, "6ForSure.... I have minded my own business, but I couldn't live with myself if I didn't make any attempt to educate folks like my neighbors (especially since I care about what happens to them)."

Educate, not legislate at gunpoint!

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"Gun Control Only Protects Those in Power"
 
Sally, you and your husband have done your best. Doesn't hurt to reinforce the message when possible, but there are practical limits to how much responsibility you can take for someone else's actions.

I will take a bit of issue with one of your comments. '... a large majority of gun owners are like this ...' - well, there are more than I would like, but I don't know if it reaches anywhere near majority. Firearms accidents have been decreasing for years.

Here in Arizona we recently debated two different training proposals - one would have provided a tax credit for firearms training, and the other would have provided firearms training in schools (either mandatory or elective). The first was defeated because the state didn't want to lose the tax revenue. The second was roundly criticized for being 'crazy', etc. So much for society's true interest in protecting children and adults. Training is key, and there is no substitute.

Unfortunately, the anti-self defense movement looks at these problems and concludes we must ban firearms. There are a lot of lousy drivers in the world. Why don't be ban automobiles? Same logic.

And, Sport, how many accidents occur at gun shows? Yes, we have all seen incorrect firearms safety at gun shows, and it is unaceptable. But, "At a gunshow this past weekend,the MAJORITY of people who were carrying handguns had their finger on the trigger"? I've been to a lot of gun shows, and I don't even know how they could do this. Do you mean people looking at firearms for purchase? It isn't even practical to carry a gun, and keep your finger on the trigger.

And, as far as being painted by muzzles, that is more of an issue at gun shows, no question. They are so crowded that it is very difficult to pick up any firearm without painting someone as you raise the barrel to a vertical position. People need to do their best to avoid the problem, and finger off the trigger is a critical safety in such a situation.

You then mention '... an effort to close the shows for "safety" reasons.. You know what? If things don't improve, I just might support their effort.' Interesting statement.

I've learned a great deal about safety, training, tactics and firearms on TFL. We have a lot of great people here. But, we don't help others if we simply condemn them for being amateurs around firearms. We help them by diplomatically teaching the 4 firearm safety rules, influencing by good example, and courteously pointing out safety concerns.

I'm beginning to wonder about a few of these recent threads which intimate that TFL has a lack of concern about safety, that 'if things don't change I might join the other side', support anti-RKBA legislation, 'switch sides', etc.
 
Sally,

Tell the cops??? NO WAY! This is some thing that can be worked out between people by a long lost art called "communication." Every time we call the cops about a gun, it is another nail in our coffin.

In this day and age, it should not be too hard to convince this couple to do better based upon the litigious nature of society today.

It frosts my behind when ever some one suggests we let the benevolent government solve a problem. This is your problem and you can solve it. If you need help, just let this forum know about it and you will get advice, and the best of that is most of it will be good.

Good Luck,
Champ
 
"Ditto" to Gunslinger comments.

Champ, It's not MustangSally's problem. The problem is her neighbor's and then it is only percieved as a problem, when there may be no problem at all.

MustangSally, Where have we heard the phase, "it's for the children," before?

When we meddle intrusively into someone else's life we become the very thing we detest.

Report him to the police?

Sue him?

Can he be taught? Maybe, if he's willing.

These sugestions just contibute to the problems that we are fighting.

Do you know what he is teaching his children? Are you there 24hrs a day to find out? Are the guns loaded? Do you really know his mind?

How about, "Allow him some freedom to experience the consequences of his choices."? Isn't that what we are really struggling for? To retain our freedom to choose and experience, yes, even painful experiences.

You can't have it both ways!

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John/az

"The middle of the road between the extremes of good and evil, is evil. When freedom is at stake, your silence is not golden, it's yellow..." RKBA!

[This message has been edited by John/az2 (edited March 14, 2000).]
 
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