Iraq Veterans, what is your true opinion on the M9 Beretta 9mm?

I asked my cousin about it. He served in Iraq. His basic response was, "It was a service pistol." He is a big guy, 6'4" with large hands, so the size didn't bother him. He said his always went bang every time, but added that he maintained it carefully and knew what he was doing. He didn't think it was particularly better or worse than any other average service pistol.

FWIW, in civilian life he likes to build and target shoot AR's, but as far as handguns goes he's an HK guy.
 
Leaving a mag fully loaded CAN (not WILL) also wear them out
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Correct.

So yeah, my experience is leaving a magazine loaded for extended periods of time causes more damage and WILL result in malfunctions in US Army M-4's and M-9's.
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Also correct!

"It was a service pistol."
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Yes. I find it kind of funny that people attach such an emotional handbag to a tool. It worked fine no better or worse than any other service pistol that passed service adoption testing.
 
TunnelRat
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Walt Sherrill made a correct general statement and I made a correct specific statement.

Two different things. I would think you would know that without having to point out the obvious.

Please read the thread.
 
davidsog said:
You should talk to Tunnelrat!
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Why should he talk to me?

All I did was make a comment on what seemed like an unusual way to frame that response. It really doesn't bear dragging out.

I have read the parts of this thread that were added when it was resurrected from 10 years ago (usually the mods close zombie threads but okay). We've had the discussion on spring life multiple times in the past, hence the threads John and Walt mentioned. We've also talked about the M9 before. Doesnt hurt to discuss it again, but generally the same information. As for paying attention, I can read the thread and notice oddities in phrasing at the same time. Given the OP hasn't made a response to this forum since 2010, my guess is he'll forgive me.

Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk
 
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www.youtube.com/watch?v=RlgxOW9QzKc

www.youtube.com/watch?v=f9Mo56FSVYE
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Yup. It's "common knowledge" that leaving mags loaded won't weaken the springs. This is one of those situations where common knowledge is wrong. Anyone who wants to know the truth can run their own experiment. I have no reason to believe that their results will be different from mine.

Here's a person who ran a similar test.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AVC-83QW5L4

His results were similar. The springs were clearly affected but the magazines still functioned properly.

That's what I've seen too. So far I've not seen a magazine spring weaken enough from being left loaded to actually fail, but every magazine spring I've tested after it's been in a loaded mag for an extended period has shown measurable weakening and that weakening seems to continue to progress the longer the mag is left loaded.

Here's a pretty good treatment of the topic.

https://www.luckygunner.com/lounge/magazine-springs-and-ammo-cycling/
 
My father brought home a 1911 made in 1925 from WWII...it had it's original magazine.
I inherited it with the mag loaded with 7 Rem-UMC FMJ’s, and the box of ammo with 20rds left. The mag had been loaded since the last time he shot it, in 1957.
After he passed away, I put that mag, loaded by my dad so long ago, in his pistol, and fired every round. That was in 2000.
I don’t worry about mag springs.
 
Four tours with Blackwater in Iraq. Deep deserts near Basarah and COB Adder. We had two types of side arms. Glock 19 and Berrettas. Glocks were jam-o-madics from the fine sand. They were unreliable for us, at least the ones I had and my friends had. Later we went to Berrettas, absolutely flawless in operation. Never ever fail to function properly. Never. Trusted it my life on a daily basis. Loved it for the reliability of the weapon, and I guess reliability was the most important thing about a side arm for me.
I will say something about the Glock however, because it was plastic, in the 130 degrees heat, I did not need to wear gloves to prevent it from burning my hands like the Berrettas. People comment on the bulk and size of the Berrettas, but considering they were never meant to be carried concealed, I see no problem with it. After all, it was built for war. Carrying a 65 pound pack all day, the few ounces more it weighed made little difference.
There was incidents of our gunners getting “Glock leg” trying to holster the Glock with the body armor on. The Berrettas were never an issue with their safety.
JMHO
 
amd6547 said:
My father brought home a 1911 made in 1925 from WWII...it had it's original magazine.
I inherited it with the mag loaded with 7 Rem-UMC FMJ’s, and the box of ammo with 20rds left. The mag had been loaded since the last time he shot it, in 1957.
After he passed away, I put that mag, loaded by my dad so long ago, in his pistol, and fired every round. That was in 2000.
I don’t worry about mag springs.
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And, if all you ever shoot (or store long term) is a 1911 using 7-round magazines, you have no reason for concern. I've read of folks who fired a 1911 with a full 7-round mag that had been stored for 40+ years. It worked well. That's because the 7-round 1911 mag spring is never stressed or compressed anywhere NEAR the spring's elastic limit. Not all magazines and magazine spring designs are the same.

But, if you're shooting a 1911 with first-generation 8-round mags, or even some of the later ones (until they improved mag follower designs for that gun) you may run into some reliability problems if they've been stored fully loaded or long periods. Ditto some 10-round 1911 mags.

If you use a sub-compact 1911, any very sub-compact gun with 7+ rounds in a small magazine, or any hi-cap weapon with 17+ rounds, and keep the mags fully loaded, some of those guns COULD (not WILL) give you problems.

You might also have a problem with a gun that has been stored with the slide locked back for a long periods, as the recoil springs (like magazine springs) can degrade more quickly than you might expect in some designs.

Just because one type of magazine spring works beautifully over time, you can't assume that all magazine springs -- especially for guns with magazines designed to carry many more rounds -- will behave the same way. It all depends on the design of the mag, the number of rounds, and what the gun designers were trying to achieve with their design.

The first widely-used (double-stack) hi-cap mag was created by Dieudonné Saive, an FN small-arms designer who was working with Browning on the High Power design for FN. That magazine design wasn't put into production until several years after Browning's death.
 
JohnKSa said:
Here's a pretty good treatment of the topic.
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https://www.luckygunner.com/lounge/m...-ammo-cycling/

That was a pretty well-balanced article.

The only point that I think it missed was when one authority recommended rotating mags.

There's nothing wrong with doing that, but rotating mags just puts more mags into the rotation -- stopping wear on the unused mags if they're stored empty. If the out-of-rotation mags are kept fully loaded, some designs will still degrade, and you may not be doing much to prolong the spring's service life. Mag springs don't heal or get better when they're not used. If you have enough mags in your rotation, you may never have to replace the mags (or mag springs) -- in fact, you've already done that!

I found Mec-Gar's comments a little perplexing too, as I know that for a number of years the CZ 10-round, 15-round, 16-round, and 17-round mags all use the same spring. And in recent years Mec-Gar made the OEM mags for CZ.

I can believe that the 10 round mags might hold up almost indefinitely, and that MIGHT be true of their 15-round mags, too, if left fully loaded for long periods, but I don't know whether that is true for their 16- or 17-round mags. The same springs in the two highest-capacity mags are compressed much more deeply than the same spring when used with a 10-round mag. Mec-Gar sells mags not magazine replacement parts -- like springs or followers. Mec-Gar makes great magazines, but if the springs ever go soft you have to get replacement springs elsewhere.

.
 
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Can you guys start another thread to debate magazines springs?

I really regret even mentioning my experience with them in combat as it has drawn the thread off topic.
 
FWIW the new Checkmate milsurp mags aren't bad. I've used them in my civy M9 to good effect. Not at all a bad pistol IMHO. I also have a 92A1 that is flawless and I use it for home defense.
 
Has anyone here actually had to fire an M-9 in combat, and what were your impressions?
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I pulled the trigger and a 9mm bullet exited the barrel in the exact direction of the barrel. Repeat... Repeat... Repeat...
 
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