customaquatics
New member
the price im payin per box of 5 is like $6 i think. im orderin a couple boxes of 000 buck too.
intruder stopper
- Thread starter customaquatics
- Start date
People seem nervous here to correct the commonly repeated error that standard and magnum shells have the same power. That one just has more pellets. Huh?
Magnum loads have alot more weight and a little slower speed. Yes, weight is linear and speed is exponential to energy but a 1/3rd increase in weight (and hit probability as well as wound channels) and a little slower speed is still a big net gain.
So, load 5+1 rounds of 3" magnums in your Mossberg 500 (yes, it takes five of standard OR magnum length American shells in the tube) and you have a devastatingly more potent arm than, let's say, a 4+1 870 for example).
Then again, you probably don't really need it...
000 3" Plated Buck I'd reserve for a Griz at short range.
Magnum loads have alot more weight and a little slower speed. Yes, weight is linear and speed is exponential to energy but a 1/3rd increase in weight (and hit probability as well as wound channels) and a little slower speed is still a big net gain.
So, load 5+1 rounds of 3" magnums in your Mossberg 500 (yes, it takes five of standard OR magnum length American shells in the tube) and you have a devastatingly more potent arm than, let's say, a 4+1 870 for example).
Then again, you probably don't really need it...
000 3" Plated Buck I'd reserve for a Griz at short range.
Gehrhard, I don't see a lot of people saying the 3" shells don't have more power. I see a lot of people pointing out that the power advantage is offset by a recoil disadvantage, affecting follow-up shots, and that the 3" length often means one less shell in the magazine.
Not sure if the 2-3/4" is so ineffective that the 3" is worth the lost round or slower follow-up time.
Not sure if the 2-3/4" is so ineffective that the 3" is worth the lost round or slower follow-up time.
3" means he'll train less, flinch more, and miss more.
I can tell you 2 3/4" 00 buck does the job. I had the uh, "pleasure" of reading some police reports of local PDs having to drop suspects with their stock
870's. 00 Buckshot is very effective.
customaquatics- do this: find your local bowling pin league, and shoot a couple of runs. Track your progress 3" vs 2 3/4". Let us know how you do.
I can tell you 2 3/4" 00 buck does the job. I had the uh, "pleasure" of reading some police reports of local PDs having to drop suspects with their stock
870's. 00 Buckshot is very effective.
customaquatics- do this: find your local bowling pin league, and shoot a couple of runs. Track your progress 3" vs 2 3/4". Let us know how you do.
customaquatics
New member
ya man i can do that. but just sayin me with the recoil might be different cause im kinda big guy. but yea i can shoot both an let ya know what happens.
customaquatics, I'm a relatively big guy. 6ft, 210, and physically active. But that doesn't mean I like lots of recoil.
Some people do, I know. But size alone doesn't necessarily mean anything.
And, FWIW, a lot of guys I know who liked high-recoil in their younger days, develop a dislike for it when they get older. For that matter, a lot of karate guys end up with arthritis issues from years of punching hard objects...
IE, everything comes at a price, at some point.
Some people do, I know. But size alone doesn't necessarily mean anything.
And, FWIW, a lot of guys I know who liked high-recoil in their younger days, develop a dislike for it when they get older. For that matter, a lot of karate guys end up with arthritis issues from years of punching hard objects...
IE, everything comes at a price, at some point.
Custom;
We're not really arguing about the recoil. It is there. We're sure you are tough and big enough to handle it, but, the guys are making valid points. Just something to consider in your calculus.
FYI, there are also 2-3/4" magnum 00 if you feel compelled to get pellets I believe are not the optimum size in any case. Except at longer-than-average range or on larger game at close range, I'd go with 0, 1, or #4 buckshot myself for HD.
We're not really arguing about the recoil. It is there. We're sure you are tough and big enough to handle it, but, the guys are making valid points. Just something to consider in your calculus.
FYI, there are also 2-3/4" magnum 00 if you feel compelled to get pellets I believe are not the optimum size in any case. Except at longer-than-average range or on larger game at close range, I'd go with 0, 1, or #4 buckshot myself for HD.
colostomyclown
New member
I'm kinda a big guy too, I don't own a single 3" shell right now amongst a sizeable store of 12 gauge ammunition. It's the same reason I'd go with 15 shots of 9mm +p in a Glock 19 over 8 of .45 acp in a single stack...just more formidable overall in the end. And I'm not knocking the .45, I love it...just trying to make a comparison. Faster followup shots, usually patterns better, usually travels as fast or faster, penetration more than enough, can hold another rd or two in the tube. Easy choice.
youngunz4life
New member
3" 15 pellet 00 buck (winchester or federal). I'll let you know if it ever changes. A shotgun is sort of like the ocean: "Don't fear it, but respect it."
I get 7+1 in my mossberg 500(7 in the tube and one in the chamber). The chances are extremely rare (and I mean extremely rare) that I will need more than 8 shots, and honestly 2 3/4" might only get 8 maximum anyways. The extra 6pellets can definately save my family's and my life though! It would be nice to have an easy shot 10 or 15 paces away. Any kind of of wall penetration thing isn't going to be affected by the extra 1/4inch either. I am not going to shoot with my son right behind the wall.
It has recoil yes, but this isn't a hotdog eating contest. The recoil isn't going to be so much that I can't get off a few rounds during a home or self defense situation. Like I have said before, that is the way I trained and always shot, so for me it is just personal preference: "If it is not broken, don't fix it."
Anyone who has not shot the 3" shouldn't even be weighing in on this thread(in my opinion). I am sure many have experience + I meant the 1st part in the non-confrontational sense, but until you shoot eight 3" 15 pellet 00 buck in succession and immediately reload and shoot another eight don't even bother trying to convince me otherwise. I agree with the OP. I was taught to 'roll' with the shotgun, like lean back as you shoot. I don't do that though. I stand firm; it is the people that got whopped by a shotty that always have that anticipation and little 'change' that affects their shooting one properly.
all the best
I get 7+1 in my mossberg 500(7 in the tube and one in the chamber). The chances are extremely rare (and I mean extremely rare) that I will need more than 8 shots, and honestly 2 3/4" might only get 8 maximum anyways. The extra 6pellets can definately save my family's and my life though! It would be nice to have an easy shot 10 or 15 paces away. Any kind of of wall penetration thing isn't going to be affected by the extra 1/4inch either. I am not going to shoot with my son right behind the wall.
It has recoil yes, but this isn't a hotdog eating contest. The recoil isn't going to be so much that I can't get off a few rounds during a home or self defense situation. Like I have said before, that is the way I trained and always shot, so for me it is just personal preference: "If it is not broken, don't fix it."
Anyone who has not shot the 3" shouldn't even be weighing in on this thread(in my opinion). I am sure many have experience + I meant the 1st part in the non-confrontational sense, but until you shoot eight 3" 15 pellet 00 buck in succession and immediately reload and shoot another eight don't even bother trying to convince me otherwise. I agree with the OP. I was taught to 'roll' with the shotgun, like lean back as you shoot. I don't do that though. I stand firm; it is the people that got whopped by a shotty that always have that anticipation and little 'change' that affects their shooting one properly.
all the best
FairWarning
New member
2 3/4 is vastly MORE than effective enough, more controllable and allows one more round - do I have to say which one wins? 
Scattergun Bob
New member
customaquatics
I have a very specific stance on this subject, EVERY shell that we insert in to the magazine of our fighting scatterguns has benefits and liabilities. It is up to the person who wraps their body around the gun to perfectly understand each of the benefits and negate the liabilities. If you have done the work and made an informed decision, then by all means that IS you Serious Social Work load.
During my tour in the training division of my agency, I had the pleasure and pain of testing a wide sample of shot shell and slug ammo, into a wide sample of targets from pig cadavers to car bodies. It helped me to develop my confidence in what will and will not happen with shot shells.
If you have done your own due diligence, taking into account;
Recoil management
Consistent and repeatable pattern size
POA = POI at a given distance
Manufacture reliability
Penetration
Impact energy
Compatibility with your fighting scattergun
as some of the factors for what ends up in the magazine, then you will be miles ahead of most who choose this weapon as a defensive tool.
I make one exception HERE, I have never nor will I ever recommend any shot size below #4 Buck as a defensive load.
If you are asking me what lives in the magazine of my fighting scatterguns, here it is; My SSW rounds are Federal double plated #000 buck in 2 ¾” (a rather old round that Federal does not produce at this time). I also have a stock of old Federal 152LE #00 in 2 ¾”. I depend on these for the reasons above.
On our grand berry hunting excursions into the Priest Lake basin, I carry Federal #000 in 3”, for those wonderful and thankfully infrequent encounters with furry friends.
Specific LOADS for a specific TOOL for a specific TASK.
I have a very specific stance on this subject, EVERY shell that we insert in to the magazine of our fighting scatterguns has benefits and liabilities. It is up to the person who wraps their body around the gun to perfectly understand each of the benefits and negate the liabilities. If you have done the work and made an informed decision, then by all means that IS you Serious Social Work load.
During my tour in the training division of my agency, I had the pleasure and pain of testing a wide sample of shot shell and slug ammo, into a wide sample of targets from pig cadavers to car bodies. It helped me to develop my confidence in what will and will not happen with shot shells.
If you have done your own due diligence, taking into account;
Recoil management
Consistent and repeatable pattern size
POA = POI at a given distance
Manufacture reliability
Penetration
Impact energy
Compatibility with your fighting scattergun
as some of the factors for what ends up in the magazine, then you will be miles ahead of most who choose this weapon as a defensive tool.
I make one exception HERE, I have never nor will I ever recommend any shot size below #4 Buck as a defensive load.
If you are asking me what lives in the magazine of my fighting scatterguns, here it is; My SSW rounds are Federal double plated #000 buck in 2 ¾” (a rather old round that Federal does not produce at this time). I also have a stock of old Federal 152LE #00 in 2 ¾”. I depend on these for the reasons above.
On our grand berry hunting excursions into the Priest Lake basin, I carry Federal #000 in 3”, for those wonderful and thankfully infrequent encounters with furry friends.
Specific LOADS for a specific TOOL for a specific TASK.
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TheKlawMan
Moderator
youngunz4life: Why would anyone respect the opinion of someone that has no respect for other's opinions? As for convincing you of anything, this is the OP's thread and he asked about loads for an intruder stopper. I take that to mean indoor (probably home) defense. He didn't limit "his" question to or even mention 3" loads. How many times have you even fired a single shell indoors, 2-3/4 or 3", without ear protection and what makes you think you can get the job done with a second load of 8 rounds, if you couldn't do the job with the first 8?
Please explain how you are going to know who is behind a wall? Your son's room may be elsewhere, but what if he got up to get a glass of water.
Are you saying that you can not only get off shots with a 3" as accurately and as quickly than a reduced load 2-3/4"? If you can, good for you. Not everyone asking for input from others as such a well trained combat machine.
loose_holster_dan
New member
you sir, have quote of the day in my book!
Thanks for asking my opinion
I think that the 3" is overkill, as you point out. I think it costs you with regards to fast follow up shots, and nerve damage where the ears are concerned.
Even standard 2 3/4" buck has plenty of recoil.
Tactical low recoil 00 buck works very well for thousands of LE agencies all over the country. Would work for you, too. 1150 fps provides plenty of penetration, while the recoil is like a trap load.
NOTE: I think the 12 ga. 3" is the shotgun equivilent of the .44 mag. where defensive pistols are concerned. Excessive in power and recoil, and doesn't do anything that lesser, easier to handle calibers can do.