intrinsically accurate calibers

natman-6mm ppc only rules 300 yards and less, after that it is non existant in long range shooting ( 300 yards is really not long range). 6.5 and the 30 BRX are by far the most popular in long range. The 308 is also a very common one in 1000 yard matches. The 260 is great. I shoot a 6MMBR, it is a awesome accurate little sun of a gun too. If I had to make a pick-the 6MM and 6.5 in a variety of configurations are the kings.
 
The 6PPC does not even rule at 100 and 200 yards. The .30 Br does. The 6 ppc is probably still king of small group shooting, but it does not even compete with the .30 BR at hitting center dots.
 
The difference is small and the typical shooter isn't good enough, nor has rifles or ammo good enough to notice the difference. But it is there.
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I would like to point out that while there is a measureable statistical difference, it ONLY applies when you are speaking of the rifle/cartridge AS A GROUP! NOT as an individual.

OK, the shorter rounds are more efficient powder burners, and can be said to be more intrinsically accurate, BUT that does not mean that every .308 is more accurate than every .30-06. It is a matter of the INDIVIDUAL rifle, ammo and shooter.
 
natman-6mm ppc only rules 300 yards and less, after that it is non existant in long range shooting ( 300 yards is really not long range).
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The 6PPC does not even rule at 100 and 200 yards. The .30 Br does. The 6 ppc is probably still king of small group shooting, but it does not even compete with the .30 BR at hitting center dots.
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The point is not which particular cartridge is the current favorite, but that there is one cartridge that is dominant in each specialty. If cartridge design made no difference in accuracy, then serious target shooters would be using random cartridges. They aren't.

The 222 is an extremely accurate cartridge and used to rule benchrest, but nobody uses it for serious work any more. Why? Because the 6mm PPC was even better and drove it out, thereby proving that cartridge design makes a difference in accuracy, at least at that level of competition. If the 30 BR is replacing the 6mm PPC it just reinforces the concept.

It's not surprising that a cartridge designed for short range accuracy wouldn't be the choice in long range shooting where other considerations such as trajectory / recoil tradeoffs come into play.
 
natman- Now that you reworded it, I agree with you.I have no doubt that someday the 30 will be replaced by another case as well.

Also 44Amps last paragraph is very true as well. Best rifle in the world in the hands of someone that can't shoot,means nothing.
 
I think it's pretty well debunked. Consistency is what matters. If it does exist, it's so incredibly small of a factor, relative to other factors, that no one ought to worry about it or focus on it.

Sure the 6mm PPC has won a lot of 300 yard matches, but the .30-'06 has won a lot of 1k yard matches too, and it's not considered an intrinsically accurate round.

Accuracy of a firearm is in the shooter, not the firearm
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Completely disagree - have you never had an inaccurate rifle? No amount of skill can overcome that.
 
I think it's pretty well debunked.
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This is easy to say, but you've provided exactly zero evidence.

Consistency is what matters.
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Absolutely. And some cartridge designs are more consistent than others.

If it does exist, it's so incredibly small of a factor, relative to other factors, that no one ought to worry about it or focus on it.
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Nobody should except serious target shooters. Again the difference in accuracy due to cartridge design is small enough that you can ignore it in a hunting weight sporter. It's big enough that serious benchrest shooters can't ignore it.

Sure the 6mm PPC has won a lot of 300 yard matches, but the .30-'06 has won a lot of 1k yard matches too, and it's not considered an intrinsically accurate round.
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I'm afraid you've contradicted yourself. If the 30-06 is not considered an intrinsically accurate round, then the there must be other rounds that are considered intrinsically accurate. Which there are.

The 30-06 may have won lots of long distance matches, but I suspect that that's because it was the standard military cartridge at the time. What was the hot ticket at one time isn't the point. The point is that if cartridge design didn't make a difference, then serious target shooters would be using random cartridges. You'd look at a benchrest contest and there would be shooters using 222, 223, 222 Rem Mag, a whole slew of cartridges. Yet almost all shooters tend to use the same cartridge for a given discipline, because cartridge design makes a difference.
 
To those who say cartridge has nothing to do with accuracy and contend that accuracy is all about the shooter; they should shoot a .50 cal muzzleloader against a .30Br. or a 6 ppc and see how well they can do.
 
There is something to take into consideration here that no one has talked about and that is cost/economy of shooting said caliber. There's a reason people aren't shooting .338 Edge and .375 Cheytac at 100 yard bench rest competitions and it's not accuracy. Why would they load up more powder, shoot heavier bullets, more expensive brass etc to go just 100 yards when a triple two will do it much cheaper? Don't forget most of the seriously competitive shooters will expend in a month what would take most people years to shoot.

The economy of shooting certain calibers isn't there at the closer ranges, doesn't mean those big boys are any less accurate.
 
I guess in theory you could shoot a .50 BMG in 100 yard B.R. and compete in unlimited class. The rifle would have to weigh 75 pounds.
 
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30-06 won lots of Matches- Yes- Many years ago maybe. I don't really think cost is much of a Factor for most of these guys. Recoil and time back on target matter. You also have to take into consideration that many of them are sponsered ( I tried this year with Serria). So the cost factor is minimal at most. Rifles, bullets, primers and powder are just getting better and better each year. The bench rifle of yesterday is nothinng to the bench rifles of today and todays will be nothing compared to tomorrows. As quality improves so do world records.
 
This is a little off topic. Someone correct me if I'm wrong but I have that though virtually identical the 6mm rem is more accurate than the 243 win.
 
Per wikipedia 244Rem had a twist incompatible with heavier than 90 grain bullets. Remington remarketed it as 6mm Rem with a twist compatible with 100 grain bullets. It has a 100 fps advantage over the 243 but the market by then belonged to 243 Winchester.

I'd venture that the shorter 243, like the 308 it derived from, is more intrinsically accurate than the longer cased 6mm like the 30-06. But the parent case for the 6mm is the 7x57 Mauser.

I imagine its a bell curve thing, some 6mms are more accurate than some 243s.
 
The best group I ever shot was with a Remington 700 ADL IN .243 and Leupold VXII 2-7X33 set on 7X...the load is an 85gr Sierra HPBT and 37.5 gr IMR 4064 Win Case (neck sized) and Rem 9 1/2 primers... I have been shooting groups for a long time but I am a hunter and not a target shooter... I would say to find out what the most intrinsically accurate cartridge is, check with the bench resters.

....also find out the regimen they follow to get gilt edged accuracy from their chosen cartridge.

I think we would find out that the cartridge is just part of the accuracy equation. But it seems to me that .308 based cases seem to have the best potential.
 
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