Interesting thought.
- Thread starter WINSTON THE WOLF
- Start date
WINSTON THE WOLF
Moderator
If you read the last sentence of the original post. You would know what I think about this situation.
Oh and I already knew the U.S. wasn't friends with Georgia, Just to promote democracy.
The Bush Govt. has been reactionary and prone to leap into fires at the first hint of being even near a frying pan. Russia is going to embarrass the Bush Govt. again - yet, again - by peacefully withdrawing from Georgia. Yeah, Russia is going to peacefully withdraw from Georgia - MISSION TRUELY ACCOMPLISHED.
Bush can complain and whine about barbaric Russia, but Russia has no interest in nation-building Georgia. Russia just wants Georgia to not be a brothel for U.S./NATO covert activity - and to not mess with Ossetia. Russia will be back, however, if Georgia chooses to abuse ethnic Russians or become a NATO/U.S. pawn.
So to the dismay and horror of the Bush Govt., Russia has just quickly and effectively used its military in a unilateral move to bring peace to Ossetia/Georgia. Russia just showed Bush how its done - how to effectively use one's military without having to lie to the world or get bogged down in a quagmire. Bush can scream about Russia bringing back the Cold War, but the Russians are withdrawing - and as much as Bush needs them to stay and take the heat off Bush's own wartime problems - they are going back home over the border, mission accomplished. Medvedev might even win a Nobel Peace Prize someday.
Georgia now must assess its own ball of wax and make a decision about NATO , the U.S.A., Ossetia, and Russia. Russia has just made it perfectly clear to them about what is cool and uncool ie. it is very uncool to mess with Ossetia or to threaten Russia with NATO/U.S. weapons. Bush should take notes. Maybe in his memoir he can write: 'If only I was as smart as Putin in such matters as diplomacy and the use of military force!'
Bush can complain and whine about barbaric Russia, but Russia has no interest in nation-building Georgia. Russia just wants Georgia to not be a brothel for U.S./NATO covert activity - and to not mess with Ossetia. Russia will be back, however, if Georgia chooses to abuse ethnic Russians or become a NATO/U.S. pawn.
So to the dismay and horror of the Bush Govt., Russia has just quickly and effectively used its military in a unilateral move to bring peace to Ossetia/Georgia. Russia just showed Bush how its done - how to effectively use one's military without having to lie to the world or get bogged down in a quagmire. Bush can scream about Russia bringing back the Cold War, but the Russians are withdrawing - and as much as Bush needs them to stay and take the heat off Bush's own wartime problems - they are going back home over the border, mission accomplished. Medvedev might even win a Nobel Peace Prize someday.
Georgia now must assess its own ball of wax and make a decision about NATO , the U.S.A., Ossetia, and Russia. Russia has just made it perfectly clear to them about what is cool and uncool ie. it is very uncool to mess with Ossetia or to threaten Russia with NATO/U.S. weapons. Bush should take notes. Maybe in his memoir he can write: 'If only I was as smart as Putin in such matters as diplomacy and the use of military force!'
While no nation is innocent the US, as well as NATO (which 'includes' Israel, recently), has been exceptionally belligerent since the jackass Yeltsin was unceremoniously deposed in the USSR. There was to be no encroachment in the USSR's sphere of influence, i.e., the Caucasus. We double-crossed Russia, a nation that could have been a stalwart ally. But, alas, the demented strategy of Mackinder/Brzezinski was adopted and we've made Christian Russia an enemy. We will pay dearly for this brain-dead decision.
LightningJoe
New member
Whew! Russia in NATO? Russia an ally? I don't know why we really give a flip about Eastern Europe anyway. Russia's demographically doomed. Somebody else will inherit that country. Oil won't solve any of their long-term problems. KGB oldtimers like Putin can have their fun in Georgia. Not sure we really want an ally as dumb and as unreliable as Georgia.
Let's get out of Europe and let those poor suckers die their slow death of infertility. Will it be pretty? No, but we can't fix their problems. What will the new management in Europe be like? Ah, well that may be decided elsewhere, like in the Middle East. If Wahhabism rules Europe 100 years from now the way it holds sway in Saudi Arabia today, we will have failed and the future may look like a Mad Max movie.
Let's get out of Europe and let those poor suckers die their slow death of infertility. Will it be pretty? No, but we can't fix their problems. What will the new management in Europe be like? Ah, well that may be decided elsewhere, like in the Middle East. If Wahhabism rules Europe 100 years from now the way it holds sway in Saudi Arabia today, we will have failed and the future may look like a Mad Max movie.
Making Russia an ally would have been the smart move - and the Bush administration really messed up in that arena. Russia has given the U.S. a lot of logistical support in regard to the current mess in Afghanistan - and ironically the elements of power the U.S. is having to support now in Afghanistan - are the very elements the Russians supported in the 70's/80's.
Europe has historically had a two-faced relationship with Russia. In all fairness,Russia has at one time or another<before and after the U.S.S.R.>been invaded by France,Sweden,Germany and Poland and various coalitions of such forces.Americans will look at a country like Romania and impulsively take the side of Romanians today againt Russia - but Russia in WW2 was invaded by Romanian armies as well as German armies, and Russia has legitimate concerns about its security. NATO is a strange organization. If it was set up against the U.S.S.R. - then why must it be set up now against the Russian Federation? If I were living in Moscow, I'd be justifiably suspicious of NATO. Russia has been lied to in the past by European powers - and isn't going to cave in to NATO 'ruses.'
The big rift has been over Iraq. In retrospect, Russia was smart about not sending in troops to Iraq. There's no sane Russian who wakes up in the mornings and says 'Gee, I wish we'd sent our military with the U.S. into Iraq.' The U.S. might succeed in getting missles placed in Poland, but at the expense of Russia sending in more support to places like Venezuela, Iran, India, Malaysia...
Russia has much to offer Europe.The U.S. risks failing to understand that in some respects Russia is more of a natural ally to Western Europe than is the U.S.A. The old Tsars, Kaisers and Kings shared quite a few things in common. Europe has invested heavily in Russia ie. lots of mining and other industrial investments tie Europe and Russia together. Europe - moreso than the U.S.A. - does not want or need a new Cold War. Russia just wants a reasonable respect for its borders and sovereignty. Europe might indeed grasp that need - and not get all tangled up the agenda of a superfluous aggressive NATO which is more of a U.S. concern than a European one. At some point Europeans are going to ask 'Why are Yankees still basing their
troops on our soil when WW2 and the Cold War are in the distant past?'
In the long run I can see a bullet train connecting Moscow to Paris, and it contradicts the current U.S. vision of NATO encircling Russia.
Europe has historically had a two-faced relationship with Russia. In all fairness,Russia has at one time or another<before and after the U.S.S.R.>been invaded by France,Sweden,Germany and Poland and various coalitions of such forces.Americans will look at a country like Romania and impulsively take the side of Romanians today againt Russia - but Russia in WW2 was invaded by Romanian armies as well as German armies, and Russia has legitimate concerns about its security. NATO is a strange organization. If it was set up against the U.S.S.R. - then why must it be set up now against the Russian Federation? If I were living in Moscow, I'd be justifiably suspicious of NATO. Russia has been lied to in the past by European powers - and isn't going to cave in to NATO 'ruses.'
The big rift has been over Iraq. In retrospect, Russia was smart about not sending in troops to Iraq. There's no sane Russian who wakes up in the mornings and says 'Gee, I wish we'd sent our military with the U.S. into Iraq.' The U.S. might succeed in getting missles placed in Poland, but at the expense of Russia sending in more support to places like Venezuela, Iran, India, Malaysia...
Russia has much to offer Europe.The U.S. risks failing to understand that in some respects Russia is more of a natural ally to Western Europe than is the U.S.A. The old Tsars, Kaisers and Kings shared quite a few things in common. Europe has invested heavily in Russia ie. lots of mining and other industrial investments tie Europe and Russia together. Europe - moreso than the U.S.A. - does not want or need a new Cold War. Russia just wants a reasonable respect for its borders and sovereignty. Europe might indeed grasp that need - and not get all tangled up the agenda of a superfluous aggressive NATO which is more of a U.S. concern than a European one. At some point Europeans are going to ask 'Why are Yankees still basing their
troops on our soil when WW2 and the Cold War are in the distant past?'
In the long run I can see a bullet train connecting Moscow to Paris, and it contradicts the current U.S. vision of NATO encircling Russia.
It's that whole NWO thing, again. Even Saakshvili mentioned it in one of his televized interviews. Look it up on Youtube. Someone had to capture it.
The US has a view; the EU has a view; the UK has a view; Israel has a view; China has a view and Russia has a view of what they think this New Economic/Military Order should be. Undoubtedly, each wishes to rule. Putin has come out against the NWO as defined by the US (i.e., corporatized world). China has, too. I trust Russia more than I do China.
The US has a view; the EU has a view; the UK has a view; Israel has a view; China has a view and Russia has a view of what they think this New Economic/Military Order should be. Undoubtedly, each wishes to rule. Putin has come out against the NWO as defined by the US (i.e., corporatized world). China has, too. I trust Russia more than I do China.