Interesting encounter - advice, please.

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Wolfeye, I’m a bit confused here. First you write:

And not one of the whites, blacks, arabs, or filipinos I've talked to turned out to have plans on mugging me.
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Then you write:

….avoid questionable neighborhoods…
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If there are no Whites, Blacks, Arabs, or Filipinos that have plans to mug you, how can questionable neighborhoods exist?

Truth is, no matter the color of someone’s skin, evil exists in the world we live in. If I don’t know someone, I don’t trust them, until they earn my trust. Call me paranoid if you want, but I plan on dying of old age peacefully in my bed, not shot or cut up, bleeding out and murdered.
 
I would advise training with and carrying the best legally-permissable weapon for defense.

In the OP's case, I agree that politely acknowledging the other person's presence is smart. I have read many reports and compilations that suggest most criminals seek unaware victims. If you can remove that, it is an asset. Second, keep a solid object between you and them, if you suspect trouble. It's not quite as good as distance, but legitimate cover can be very valuable. Third, why don't you have a cell phone!? They are cheap and punching 4 buttons can get backup rolling (9-1-1-send).

...or you can reach into your pocket, sigh, then ask the guy for some money since you left your wallet at home. Who knows, it might work.
 
I'm not trying to slam anyone for their race or ancestry; the guy's behavior had all my alarm bells going off, and there's no doubt in my mind that he planned to take me down. This guy was not hanging around looking to bum a match, and getting him into conversation range didn't seem like a good idea.

As it happens, there is a large Hispanic presence in my area, with sanctuary cities and lots of gov't assistance, which makes the area enticing. There has arisen an extensive gang presence over the last couple years, with MS13 and the Latin Kings becoming the object of multi-county and federal anti-gang efforts. This makes me a bit wary.

At any rate, I did check out the locks in the car: turns out the driver's door lock button is the only one that would lock all the doors. So realistic options would be to either lock the doors from outside and leave the car, or get in on the passenger dide and dive for the locking button, and take my chances.

With no legal means of suitable defense, I'll have to seriously modify my habits to take current realities into account.
 
I don't think Hispanic had a thing to do with the encounter, or anyone's response.
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It does mine :D

Maryland: Gang Haven
By Jon Feere, April 22, 2009

According to Montgomery County, Maryland’s Chief of Police J. Thomas Manger, his jurisdiction is experiencing an increase in gang violence, particularly from Hispanic gangs like MS-13 and the Latin Kings. A great majority of these gang members are illegal aliens...

http://www.cis.org/Feere/MDImmigrantGangHaven
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Given that you are not likely to move just so you can carry a gun:

1. Don't pump gas at night.
2. Ditch the 3" knife and get something a little more substantial - preferably a fixed blade.
3. Pepper spray would be a good idea to have on you and its cheap enough to have extra bottles hidden around your vehicle.
4. Might want to invest in some sort of body armor if you are out and about a lot at night.
5. Using other entry points to your vehicle like others have said is a good idea.
6. I also liked the "how's it going" technique - lets you judge what his intentions are, especially while you still have the pump in your hand.
7. Keep cell phone on you - could have called 911 if necessary. If nothing else, just the sight of you doing something with your cell phone might be enough to get the guy's attention.
 
Skans makes some excellent recommendations... But if crime gets to a point where I feel it necessary to wear body armor to pump a tank of fuel, I am either going to: a) Move. b) throw the tarp off the Batmobile, unleash my inner superhero, and do something about.

Of course I jest about option B, but it is absolutely unacceptable that there is anywhere in the United States that it is that dangerous for law abiding citizens to go about their lives. Ridiculous.
 
There is nothing wrong with using every available tool for self defense. Profiling is yet another tool to be used as needed to keep us safe. If I see a car load of young Hispanics sitting in a vehicle looking around vs a car load of young Caucasian youth doing the same, they will receive a different response from me because in my area many Latinos are members of the Latin Kings and other gangs. They are responsible for a higher number of robberies and beat downs in my area. I have yet to hear of any Caucasian group youth doing the same. So the Latino group for this reason will raise my alert level much higher than the white group. Just as a man dressed up in a preachers outfit will cause less concern than the same man in a sweat suit with hood up.

In my above example if the white youth was the greater problem in my area they would get the raised alert. If both groups did both would get it. Its simply another tool to keep me safe and nothing more.

One thing I have found to be surprisingly true and very disappointing is how racists many of those folks who cry racism are.
 
Okay, so there is a man standing 8-10' from me at night while I'm pumping my gas. I have no gun, only a 3" folding knife, and he hasn't moved. There are no apparent witnesses and he hasn't said anything or moved at all.

I do one of two things:

1. I turn to stand square to him, and this is why: 1. If he was a "hardened criminal" type intent on robbing me, he would have robbed me by now instead of waiting for someone to see him or for the cameras here to get a good look from all the angles. So he's either mustering up his courage (which I can use) or he's just shy and wants to ask for some ridiculous favor ("hey man... you have a pencil I can have?" "No. Get out of here.")

After turning to squarely face him, I say in a loud sharp voice, "HEY! Do you mind standing somewhere else?" I don't ask him what he wants because that opens him up to make demands. I ask from him a reasonable request which, if refused, gives me cause to assume he's up to no good. It's short. It's to the point. It doesn't leave room for conversation. It says, "I don't want any. Leave me alone."

2. (You COULD supersede the first option with this one, but I'd tend to wait. That's just me.)
You call the police. 911, then ask for non-emergency dispatch or the like. Tell them you are a private citizen at "Gas Station" off of "Highway", and that there is a suspicious individual loitering and intimidating people. Look RIGHT AT HIM and give a detailed description as fast as you can. He'll leave. And the police will appreciate having his suspicious activity on record if the guy IS in fact up to no good and tries to rob someone in the next hour, or day, or week. The police aren't just interested in "Robbery in Progress" or "Murder Suspect Resisting Arrest". They want to know about the smaller things to, and they appreciate responsible and reasonable citizens contributing to the overall public safety, provided you don't try to take it too far.

This is a reasonable contribution.

~LT
 
LordTio3-
Option 1:
HEY! Do you mind standing somewhere else?
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I can't see that helping matters. I know men who would knock your teeth out for saying that to them, even if they meant you no harm to begin with. At the very least, if a nice guy like me is standing there I'm probably going to tell you to go to the fiery regions and to feel free to pump gas elsewhere.

Option 2- 911
Nothing wrong with calling the authorities if you feel threatened, and your description method might run him off... or he might fill you with enough lead to sink a Nimitz class carrier, pick up your wallet and keys, and drive off in your freshly gassed car, safe in the knowledge it will be close to an hour before the police can mount any kind of effective manhunt. Plenty of time to be long gone.
My $0.02.
 
Nothing wrong with calling the authorities if you feel threatened, and your description method might run him off... or he might fill you with enough lead to sink a Nimitz class carrier, pick up your wallet and keys, and drive off in your freshly gassed car, safe in the knowledge it will be close to an hour before the police can mount any kind of effective manhunt. Plenty of time to be long gone.
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Apparently in your skimming you missed this part...
If he was a "hardened criminal" type intent on robbing me, he would have robbed me by now instead of waiting for someone to see him or for the cameras here to get a good look from all the angles. So he's either mustering up his courage (which I can use) or he's just shy and wants to ask for some ridiculous favor ("hey man... you have a pencil I can have?" "No. Get out of here.")
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...which leads right into this being completely ridiculous...
I can't see that helping matters. I know men who would knock your teeth out for saying that to them, even if they meant you no harm to begin with. At the very least, if a nice guy like me is standing there I'm probably going to tell you to go to the fiery regions and to feel free to pump gas elsewhere.
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YOU WOULDN'T be standing there, with no car, in the middle of the night, 8 feet from a stranger, looking mischevious, for minutes at a time, without saying or doing anything but still managing to put this innocent gentleman on edge and fear for his safety. YOU WOULDN'T. And no one in their right mind would find it odd that some innocent stranger would be personally offended by someone doing this to them. You know men that would try to knock my teeth out? You need some new friends.

~LT
 
Find a busier gas station with a lot of traffic.
Perhaps consider filling up at a more hospitable hour.
Pepper spray, nastiest legal stuff you can find.
If possible, a more self defense friendly locale.
 
1. I didn't miss that part. I should have addressed how you could possibly know how a "hardened" criminal would behave:confused:. People are unpredictable and irrational.

2. I wouldn't be standing there? How could you possibly know? Perhaps my car broke down two blocks down and I walked there to call for a ride and am waiting on them. I'm in a crappy mood because I just slung a rod through my engine and don't feel like exchanging pleasantries.

I'm not sure I look mischievous but I would defintely appear intimidating to your average 5'10" 180 pound man since I'm 6'5" in boots and weigh just shy of 400 pounds.

Those men I mentioned. I said I knew them, not that we were friends.

My whole point, that you obviously missed, was your solutions might un-necessarily escalate a situation you could have walked away from. Being courteous doesn't make you appear weak. A "You doin' alright?" will get you alot further than acting like someone just broke out of the state pen. Virtually every time.
 
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Carrying pepper spray might be a good idea. I keep a can in every vehicle and normally I have small can on my person. There are a number of things that you could have done just as you and others have mentioned…which one is best? I can’t say.

Things I would do:

1.) Try to keep at least ¼ - ½ of the gas tank full at all times. This will enable you to pick and choose when and where you want to fill your tank. Preferably mid-day when there are a lot of people at the station.
2.) Carry pepper spray
 
That's certainly a sticky situation. People can say what they want about racial profiling, etc. Look in the newspaper. Look at the prison demographics. You don't see a lot of preppy white boys in their early 20's committing armed robbery, assault, etc. Depending on where you live, you do see a lot of minorities committing these crimes... and its certainly not out of the question to think that way when you have some dude all dressed in black lurking around you pumping gas in the middle of the night at a gas station. Its suspicious activity FOR SURE.

I personally would have quietly drawn and concealed my knife. Probably said something to the guy like "hey man whats up". Definitely would make strong eye contact to gauge his intent and express dominant behavior, definitely would have let the dude know he's dealing with a 6'9" 255lbs dude, definitely would speak with an authoritative deep tone, definitely would not turn my back to him, and definitely would have my head on a swivel looking around for accomplices.

These people many times are criminals of opportunity. If you appear like an easy target, unaware, or unable to protect yourself you can find yourself in trouble. By simply being aware, making eye contact, asserting yourself, you can easily make these people think twice.
 
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I'm 63, out of shape, and on blood thinners, so a violent encounter was going to leave me in a very bad way, and I'm in no shape to run for it.

No cell phone, unarmed except for 3" folding knife

I live in Maryland, which means no carry, and work in DC, which means keeping a weapon in the car is likely to make me a ward of the state for a few years. So I'm essentially defenseless.
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"Essentially Defenseless"=Bad plan. ...... you planned this? Or failed to plan and this is how you ended up?

Carry a phone, so at the very least, you can appear to be calling the Police. Actually calling them would give them a 911 recording to play at the trial, if they ever catch your attacker....

Bear spray?

I'm glad I don't live in Maryland. .... and won't be in a hurry to visit, either.
 
Yeah, being a big intimidating young buck myself, I feel a little more secure with just a knife. NJ law also does not grant CCW's to upstanding citizens, so we have to make do with what we can around the law. If I was older I would absolutely have pepper spray on me in that situation, and would have something with reach like a baseball bat in the trunk plus possibly a big arse "dog the bounty hunter" size bottle of pepper spray in the trunk.

Also, just because the attendant is locked in his room doesn't mean he can't help you. You could have walked over to him and got his attention. At the very least he could be a deterrent and witness to a violent crime. If I were going to rob someone I wouldn't do it while there was a guy watching, locked in a room, with a phone.
 
Anyone out there have comments or suggestions? I don't like trusting to luck to save my butt.
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Since the PDR of Maryland won't allow you to be armed, how about keeping a small tube of pepper spray handy? That's some nasty stuff and will definitely change a goblin's mind about what he intends to do next.
 
Options: Douse the guy with gas. But he never got close enough.
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Didnt get close enough? All he did is watch you or look at you?

How a bout a good solid baseball bat in the seat with a glove and a couple balls so it doesnt look like it is for a weapons use which makes it premeditated in a way.

Get the gas during the day and stay out of bad areas. I been in DC and saw some bad dudes when we got off the beltway or some road I was kinda lost. Was a bad area but the guy we asked for directions was OK, little ruff but a polite person.


I have never felt fear from a person looking at me. I like people of all cultures, love the food :) and try to get along with them all.
 
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